Coronavirus

[cardinalkarp]

Unfortunately, what they’ve done to those who do attempt to come forward (ie…kiss your livelihood away) has basically silenced anyone who feels the need to speak out.

Look at the vitriol that I’ve gotten just from this board, it was hard enough to just share my position on it (and you see why) and I don’t have any stake in the game.

IF a doctor is to disagree w/ the current methods, is it worth it to risk everything? The few that have, are labeled “anti-vaxxers” and “anti-science”.

So what are we left w/, either legitimate doctors who are now labeled as “quacks” because they spoke out, or people who have always been on the fringe.

The fact that our government (and social media companies, which are definitely being puppeteers for them) feel the need to censor most anything that comes out speaking negatively about the vaccine is enough to make me hesitant.

[CardsofSTL]

A reminder to all that you can discuss the different sides and points of view all you want; but directly attacking another poster is never acceptable.

[mikechamp]

All I know is, thank God that when the vaccine is fully approved - which the FDA says they expect by Labor Day - schools can require it just like every other vaccine.

I will concede that does seem to be a very un-FDA-like timeline. It's also the first time I've heard that news. Do you have a link to that announcement?

[CardsofSTL]

Once more with feeling... No personal attacks.

[Smith Corks One]

All I know is, thank God that when the vaccine is fully approved - which the FDA says they expect by Labor Day - schools can require it just like every other vaccine.

I will concede that does seem to be a very un-FDA-like timeline. It's also the first time I've heard that news. Do you have a link to that announcement?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/us/ ... roval.html

[TheoSqua]

Honestly, I’m tired of going in the round and round circles of here’s why you say it’s safe and good/here’s why I think it’s potentially unsafe and harmful.

You guys do you, and I’ll continue to remain cautious and respectful when I rarely go out by wearing a mask and social distancing. I will continue to do my part in lieu of the vaccine, and I truly feel that is the way out of this for the vaccinated and unvaccinated. I know that doesn’t make everyone happy, nor does that approach work for everyone, but it works for me at the current moment.

I’ll continue to feel our government has botched this completely along every step of the way and continues to do so in the potential mandates of vaccine as well as their constant changing of minds on “wear a mask; okay, it’s safe not to wear a mask; oops wear a mask again!” People should be looking at our government when blaming someone for this disaster we’re currently in, not the unvaccinated.

You may have already answered this, but i'm genuinely curious and wasn't able to find it. What is your concern about the Johnson & Johnson vaccine then? It was created using much more traditional vaccination methods that have been tried and true for decades and only requires one shot.

There is evidence showing that the J&J vaccine is not as effective as the mRNA vaccines, especially against other variants, but it's still significantly better than no vaccination.

I personally feel very strongly about getting the vaccine. My wife and I had COVID and saw first hand how dangerous the viral infection can be and we were vaccinated as early as we were allowed to.

In the past the anti-vaxx movement seemed to be along the same lines as the flat-earth movement: a counter culture that could make people feel like they are bonding over a unified belief in something, but something that didn't really have a lot of scientific evidence and had to get a little conspiracy-theory like to find substantial evidence to the contrary.

But now it's closer to 40% of the population that is opposed to vaccinations. In my experience so far it seems everyone falls into the following categories: Political/populists beliefs that stem from distrust in the government or a political protest of our government by not taking the vaccine. People who legitimately believe it's scientifically inaccurate in spite of the mountain of evidence to the contrary, and those who are, in my opinon, selfishly not getting the vaccine because they worry about short-term sickness or the inconvenience of having to go get stuck with a needle.

Based on what i've read from you, you don't seem to fall into any of those categories, especially for the J&J vaccine. You've said it's not a political thing, you've said the new medical technology and lack of testing concerns you and, while I personally disagree, could be a valid point for the mRNA vaccines - but this doesn't apply for the J&J vaccine, and if you're willing to quarantine, social distance, wear masks, and do your best to avoid getting others sick then the last one obviously doesn't apply.

So i'm genuinely curious what your thoughts are here.

[TheoSqua]

Unfortunately, what they’ve done to those who do attempt to come forward (ie…kiss your livelihood away) has basically silenced anyone who feels the need to speak out.

Look at the vitriol that I’ve gotten just from this board, it was hard enough to just share my position on it (and you see why) and I don’t have any stake in the game.

IF a doctor is to disagree w/ the current methods, is it worth it to risk everything? The few that have, are labeled “anti-vaxxers” and “anti-science”.

So what are we left w/, either legitimate doctors who are now labeled as “quacks” because they spoke out, or people who have always been on the fringe.

The fact that our government (and social media companies, which are definitely being puppeteers for them) feel the need to censor most anything that comes out speaking negatively about the vaccine is enough to make me hesitant.

Why are you convinced that there is a significant subset of doctors and the scientific community that disagree but are afraid to come forward? Generally speaking the scientific and medical community base a lot of their consensus decisions around the scientific method, which heavily favors an overall consensus on fact-based evidence.

I would ask you to consider that, even if you're right and the vaccines do have a long term medical consequence or unfavorable side effects that it might still be worth getting the vaccine.

The mortality rate for COVID has been around 2%, and to achieve heard immunity naturally would require roughly 70% of the population getting COVID. That would mean that roughly 4.18m adults in the united states would die without social distancing/vaccinations.

Evidence is showing that 10 - 30% of those who get COVID suffer from "Long Covid" that are major long-term health issues those who have COVID will deal with. For example I started having severe sleep apnea after COVID. The doctor I saw said it likely was due to permanent inflammation in my airways from the damage the virus did while I was infected. So I'm on a CPAP machine for the foreseeable future. I'm overweight and had mild sleep apnea prior to this, but I wasn't off-the-charts-you-gonna-die bad until I had Covid, so worse health outcomes are absolutely being caused by COVID.

So let's meet in the middle of that 10-30% and say that 20% of people have long-term medical affects from COVID. That means that a virus like COVID going through the US population unimpeded would cause roughly 29.2 million to have long term medical affects from COVID.

So even if you're correct and the vaccine ends up having long-term impacts and even if there is a percentage of the medical and scientific community that have concerns about the vaccine. In order to avoid vaccinating you have to be so confident in that that you're willing to bet getting vaccinated will be worse than 4+ million people dying and almost 30 million people having severe long-term health issues from a virus.

The concerns you have about the virus are hypothetical and unknown. The damage that COVID can do are known facts that cannot be disputed.

Obviously these numbers above won't happen because people have social distanced and have been vaccinated. But from a logical standpoint it shows how difficult it is to argue that society as a whole is better off getting the vaccine than they are dealing with COVID. Because the choice is not to get vaccinated or not get vaccinated. The choice is getting vaccinated or continuing to deal with COVID for longer than we would otherwise.

[IMADreamer]

I can not stress enough the long term effects and how awful they are. They have absolutely wrecked my lungs. I'm typing this right now with pneumonia and bronchitis for the four time since covid. Basically the cycle of my life for the last 6 months has been, have respiratory issues, go to doctor, get prednizone, get better, have respiratory issues, rinse repeat. My bronchial tubes and lung tissue is terribly scarred from covid and basically there is nothing I can do about it. It may heal itself with time, but the specialist I saw said scarring in the lungs can take over a year to heal and every time I get pneumonia again it's likely doing additional damage.

Just get the vaccine. Please just do it. You don't want this.

[Radbird]

Having a large unvaccinated population provides an environment for new variants to develop and thrive, allowing for the possibility of the eventual development of a super variant that will infect even the vaccinated. Take away that environment and we can stop the cycle. The only way to do this without a massive death toll is with a high vax rate.

In my simple mind, this supersedes any concerns getting the vaccine may present.

[GeddyWrox]

I can not stress enough the long term effects and how awful they are. They have absolutely wrecked my lungs. I'm typing this right now with pneumonia and bronchitis for the four time since covid. Basically the cycle of my life for the last 6 months has been, have respiratory issues, go to doctor, get prednizone, get better, have respiratory issues, rinse repeat. My bronchial tubes and lung tissue is terribly scarred from covid and basically there is nothing I can do about it. It may heal itself with time, but the specialist I saw said scarring in the lungs can take over a year to heal and every time I get pneumonia again it's likely doing additional damage.

Just get the vaccine. Please just do it. You don't want this.

Christ, Ima, that's awful. I'm so sorry man. Hang in there.