Coronavirus

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Okay, transmissibility.

I don't have a good source for this. If one exists, please share.

But, from my understanding, Fauci and the CDC have come out and said, hey, the amount of virus in an infected and vaxxed persons nasopharynx (sp? apparently this is the air passage from the nose to the lungs and including behind the mouth let's just call it the airway) is the same amount of virus in an infected and unvaxxed persons airway.

As such, infected vaxxed people can transmit the disease.

To me, so take it fwiw, not much, this makes sense. The vaccines work to build a response in the blood cells. Even before vaccines, this was the most likely explanation in the vast difference seen between how patients responded to an infection. Some got it in their nose and before it got to the lungs, the body fought it off. It remained asymptomatic or very mildly symptomatic. For others, the virus got into the lungs and took over to a point it killed them.

But, given what the CDC/Fauci have said about the amount of virus in the airway being the same between vaxxed/unvaxxed, and given that the vax works to create an immune response in the blood, can it not be extrapolated to mean that regardless of vaccination status, the virus is going to get into the airway mucus, replicate, and transmit? That to me is the ultimate conclusion. I'm not saying I'm right, that's just my thought.

Carrying on with that assumption, what's preventing the vaxxed from getting the virus in the airway in the first place? To me, it's pretty clear nothing is stopping it from getting into the airway, nothing is stopping it from reproducing in the airway, and nothing is stopping it from exiting the airway....unless of course someone is wearing a mask. *mask emoji thumbs up*

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

One interesting thing is the efficacy at preventing cases decreases (actually don't know if that's correct, but the % of vaxxed as part of total cases increases) with each age group except the 80+ and reaches as high as 21% in the 70-79 group. So, 21% of cases in the 70-79 age group are of vaccinated people. I didn't find an age breakdown but you'd expect the percent vaccinated of each age group would increase as well, so, there's that.

I don't think it decreases, you're looking at what is called the base rate fallacy. If that 70+ group was fully vaccinated, like 100%, you'd be looking at 100% of covid cases for that subset being fully vaxxed. That doesn't mean 0% efficacy, it means we need to look at denominators. I alluded to this in my last post but the more a population is vaxxed, the higher the percentage of positives will be among vaxxed.

Good point, I should have said I found it interesting that when taking the [ #vax cases / (#vax cases + #unvax cases) ] the trend was higher as the age groups increased. As you note, that could be due to higher %vaccinated overall as the age groups increased.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Regarding variants, in general, it's all speculation at this point. I mean, can a variant pop up that causes ADE? Probably, sure, I guess anything is possible. Could a variant pop up that kills everyone regardless of vax/nat infection/naive status? Sure. Anything seems possible at this point, no?

I'd be curious to know what the worst case scenario is. What the theoretical limits are for a virus in this category and how effectively the vaccines can be re-targeted. It does seem like anything is possible, but I'd be curious what a virologist would say.

I guess when the mask resistant variant shows up we can all start to really pile on Karp.

Worst case scenario? Easy.

[Smith Corks One]

All I know is, thank God that when the vaccine is fully approved - which the FDA says they expect by Labor Day - schools can require it just like every other vaccine.

[cardinalkarp]

All I know is, thank God that when the vaccine is fully approved - which the FDA says they expect by Labor Day - schools can require it just like every other vaccine.

Okay I know I said I’d shut up, but how in the world is that not concerning to anyone. There basically saying….oh, you need to FDA approval (potentially for mandates)? Okay, here ya go….stamped for approval.

[Smith Corks One]

All I know is, thank God that when the vaccine is fully approved - which the FDA says they expect by Labor Day - schools can require it just like every other vaccine.

Okay I know I said I’d shut up, but how in the world is that not concerning to anyone. There basically saying….oh, you need to FDA approval (potentially for mandates)? Okay, here ya go….stamped for approval.

LMMFAO. So you have a problem with the vaccines because they’re not fully approved, and now you have a problem with the fact that they’re finally going to be fully approved? Got it. Loud and clear.

[G. Keenan]

All I know is, thank God that when the vaccine is fully approved - which the FDA says they expect by Labor Day - schools can require it just like every other vaccine.

Okay I know I said I’d shut up, but how in the world is that not concerning to anyone. There basically saying….oh, you need to FDA approval (potentially for mandates)? Okay, here ya go….stamped for approval.

Let's concede that the FDA is corrupt and American politicians are corrupt and big pharma is corrupt, and that you should therefore be highly suspicious of whatever they tell you.

These same vaccines have been approved by the FDA-equivalent in dozens of other countries. Are they all corrupt too? Are they also looking at the data wrong and ignoring potential side effects? Is all the population data they're gathering in their countries showing the vaccines to be highly safe and effective, also not to be trusted?

This is much bigger than the USA and our internal dynamics. You have to basically distrust the entire global medical community and the government regulators of all our peer nations as well. Is the German government tricking its population into taking these? Is England, France, Sweden, Italy, Israel, and so on?

[cardinalkarp]

All I know is, thank God that when the vaccine is fully approved - which the FDA says they expect by Labor Day - schools can require it just like every other vaccine.

Okay I know I said I’d shut up, but how in the world is that not concerning to anyone. There basically saying….oh, you need to FDA approval (potentially for mandates)? Okay, here ya go….stamped for approval.

LMMFAO. So you have a problem with the vaccines because they’re not fully approved, and now you have a problem with the fact that they’re finally going to be fully approved? Got it. Loud and clear.

It was due for FDA approval in 2023, so you know, they can have some actual data of what the vaccine is doing over at minimum a couple year period. Now, they said, eh we gathered that data a year and a half early. My issue isn’t w/ the FDA approval, it’s how they are going about getting it, again, if you don’t see the difference I don’t know what to say.

[cardinalkarp]

All I know is, thank God that when the vaccine is fully approved - which the FDA says they expect by Labor Day - schools can require it just like every other vaccine.

Okay I know I said I’d shut up, but how in the world is that not concerning to anyone. There basically saying….oh, you need to FDA approval (potentially for mandates)? Okay, here ya go….stamped for approval.

Let's concede that the FDA is corrupt and American politicians are corrupt and big pharma is corrupt, and that you should therefore be highly suspicious of whatever they tell you.

These same vaccines have been approved by the FDA-equivalent in dozens of other countries. Are they all corrupt too? Are they also looking at the data wrong and ignoring potential side effects? Is all the population data they're gathering in their countries showing the vaccines to be highly safe and effective, also not to be trusted?

This is much bigger than the USA and our internal dynamics. You have to basically distrust the entire global medical community and the government regulators of all our peer nations as well. Is the German government tricking its population into taking these? Is England, France, Sweden, Italy, Israel, and so on?

I think power corrupts, absolutely…..in every nation around the world. And yes, I know that’s a very cynical view.

I’m not saying that there aren’t millions/billions of good people in the world, but unfortunately those aren’t the ones who get into positions of power in most cases.

[G. Keenan]

All I know is, thank God that when the vaccine is fully approved - which the FDA says they expect by Labor Day - schools can require it just like every other vaccine.

Okay I know I said I’d shut up, but how in the world is that not concerning to anyone. There basically saying….oh, you need to FDA approval (potentially for mandates)? Okay, here ya go….stamped for approval.

Let's concede that the FDA is corrupt and American politicians are corrupt and big pharma is corrupt, and that you should therefore be highly suspicious of whatever they tell you.

These same vaccines have been approved by the FDA-equivalent in dozens of other countries. Are they all corrupt too? Are they also looking at the data wrong and ignoring potential side effects? Is all the population data they're gathering in their countries showing the vaccines to be highly safe and effective, also not to be trusted?

This is much bigger than the USA and our internal dynamics. You have to basically distrust the entire global medical community and the government regulators of all our peer nations as well. Is the German government tricking its population into taking these? Is England, France, Sweden, Italy, Israel, and so on?

I think power corrupts, absolutely…..in every nation around the world. And yes, I know that’s a very cynical view.

I’m not saying that there aren’t millions/billions of good people in the world, but unfortunately those aren’t the ones who get into positions of power in most cases.

Ok, but how is someone like Anthony Fauci in a "position of power"? Sure, he has a big time job, but before Covid you had never heard of him. All he does is give advice to the people who actually have power. And yet, he is made out to be some kind of villain. Tucker Carlson said Fauci created the virus.

How is the head of your local health department who is a government employee probably earning like $100 - $150k in on the big pharma bonanza? A professor of medicine at your local university who says to get vaccinated? How is the massive global conspiracy maintained across thousands of officials and doctors and researchers across the world who don't know each other?

What I'm noticing here is that people who perhaps have an "outsider" mentality are placing more trust in the voices of other "outsiders." Anyone inside the credentialed community of experts and officials is not to be trusted, whereas a YouTube blogger or the guy falsely claiming to have invented mRNA vaccines in the 80s are trusted because they too are outsiders relative to the scientific/corporate/government consensus.