Coronavirus

[Fat_Bulldog]

I think a lot of us, including myself, need to not take discussions like this as personally as we do. A couple of years ago, I had had it with constant bickering, and most of it I brought it on myself. I needed a break, so I took one.

Then I think back to the reason we came here. Mostly because it wasn't Cards Talk. As discussions started to veer more like Cards Talk than the original way things were here, it got harder.

You all should know my positions on most stuff, and that they are way different than most here. But I think it has gotten better as far as letting me express those different opinions, or maybe I just don't care if you agree or not, who knows. You may call me a fool, and you could be right. But there are a lot of fools in this world. I'm just one.

What I keep telling myself, is that someone thinks differently, I think they are wrong. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we are all f'ing wrong. Whatever.

This!

[Freed Roger]

And yes, this topic has gotten heated, and I do feel cornered sometimes as myself and literally only a couple others hold this opinion….and while most have been respectful for the most part others have not.

I’m taking deep breaths CardofSTL

you poor baby, not getting the desired affirmation on a baseball forum.

meanwhile, actual babies/children getting infected because of entitled Antiva [expletive].

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

I tried to go back and read everything I missed. Seems like y’all had a lot of good points.

I missed in a strange way talking about all this stuff with you all. It’s kind of soothing to type thoughts out and know there will be criticisms and support for points that are thought out and may make some semblance of sense.

I’d also kindly remind everyone there is a politics forum with with a thread appropriately called coronavirus politics.

Sometime over the weekend or maybe tomorrow afternoon Id like to post what’s known (little) about the delta variant. Because obviously it’s changed a lot of things.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

And yes, this topic has gotten heated, and I do feel cornered sometimes as myself and literally only a couple others hold this opinion….and while most have been respectful for the most part others have not.

I’m taking deep breaths CardofSTL

you poor baby, not getting the desired affirmation on a baseball forum.

meanwhile, actual babies/children getting infected because of entitled Antiva [expletive].

Should be noted, babies and children have been getting infected from the beginning. And with a more virulent strain (which didn’t mutate in America because of some people that didn’t get vaccinated fwiw) more babies and children are getting infected.

And they’re getting sicker, likely due to the virulence increase and the faster rise in viral load not giving the innate arm of the immune system enough time to wipe it out (maybe), but this is the world we live in. Blaming kids getting sicker on the unvaxxed is 100% misguided and there is a questionable amount of blame, certainly less than 100%, on them.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

[SHOW]

Here's the weekly update from Mrs. AW's work. SSS and all. But, I post this because it is so out of line with all the data I've seen on how likely breakthrough infections are, it's worth noting. And, the numbers are remaining relatively consistent.

1/3 of people ventilated is vaxxed.
3/10 in the ICU are vaxxed
64% hospitalized (11 in this group) not in ICU are vaxxed (seems like an outlier, this has been around 26% the past two weeks)
22% of outpatients are vaxxed

Statewide, according to the NYT map, 46.5% of the adult population (useful since this is a veterans hospital) in Arkansas is fully vaxxed.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... doses.html

[cardinalkarp]

And yes, this topic has gotten heated, and I do feel cornered sometimes as myself and literally only a couple others hold this opinion….and while most have been respectful for the most part others have not.

I’m taking deep breaths CardofSTL

you poor baby, not getting the desired affirmation on a baseball forum.

meanwhile, actual babies/children getting infected because of entitled Antiva [expletive].

And surprisingly Freed, you been one of the most disrespectful.

I’m not looking for affirmation, I’ve seen how this board typically reacts to those w/ differing opinions, and it’s track record isn’t great. I was looking for some healthy debate on the topic and for you guys to understand that not all of the unvaccinated are Trump fans or conspiracy theorists. They actually do lots of research on the subject and come up w/ an informed decision (one that most don’t agree with, but that’s neither here nor there).

It’s the constant name calling and blaming what’s the most frustrating and surprising.

[GeddyWrox]

And yes, this topic has gotten heated, and I do feel cornered sometimes as myself and literally only a couple others hold this opinion….and while most have been respectful for the most part others have not.

I’m taking deep breaths CardofSTL

you poor baby, not getting the desired affirmation on a baseball forum.

meanwhile, actual babies/children getting infected because of entitled Antiva [expletive].

Should be noted, babies and children have been getting infected from the beginning. And with a more virulent strain (which didn’t mutate in America because of some people that didn’t get vaccinated fwiw) more babies and children are getting infected.

And they’re getting sicker, likely due to the virulence increase and the faster rise in viral load not giving the innate arm of the immune system enough time to wipe it out (maybe), but this is the world we live in. Blaming kids getting sicker on the unvaxxed is 100% misguided and there is a questionable amount of blame, certainly less than 100%, on them.

Technically, correct. Delta originated in India. Where, not surprisingly, a vast majority of their population had not yet received vaccinations.

[cardinalkarp]

I want to preface this by saying these are my thoughts only, I don’t have any studies or links to back this…

I was just thinking about all of the variants that are popping up lately and people wondering if this one is going to be the new “big and bad” one that takes control.

I know we’ve touched on the debate before that the vaccine may/may not be driving these variants to crop up, but I don’t recall in the year + of Alpha reigning supreme and no one getting vaccinated that we were hearing much (if anything) about all of these variants (and more dangerous ones at that) effecting people. One would think if it truly was the unvaccinated population that was driving them that we would have been seeing the variants grow deadlier and deadlier as they ripped through the unvaccinated (which was everyone obviously).

And please don’t take this as I’m blaming the vaccinated for the variants either. Those getting vaccinated are doing what they think is best for them to stay safe, and they are listening to the official agencies as guidance to what is best. The first news on the subject by the official agencies was that there’s no way the vaccine is causing variants, then as time went on even the official news sources admitted that it could play a role.

So I’m just thinking logically (in my own mind, i guess) that if it were the unvaccinated causing the variants would we have seen them running rampant in all the time there was no vaccine? And now that we have a vaccine, the virus is looking for was to mutate and get around the efficacy of it.

Whether or not the CDC (and whoever else gives us the official narrative) knew that the vaccine could cause variants will probably remain untold. But what if they see what it’s doing now and as opposed to admitting fault, saying they were aware of the potential, but deemed it a justifiable risk they’re only course of action is “everyone must be vaccinated!!” Which of course may/may not work either.

[GeddyWrox]

Scientists were always tracking the different variants. There was a British one early on, and a South African one too. And I just double checked. Delta was first identified in India in December. So all of that occurred while the vaccines were all still in Phase III testing.

Viruses mutate all the time. Vaccines are not the cause of mutation.

[GeddyWrox]

I may not be smart enough to fully follow all of this. Maybe AW can. But this clearly shows the mutation paths were happening and being tracked WAY before the vaccines were publicly available:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 1.full.pdf