Accidental/negligent shooting death on movie set

[ghostrunner]

Been following this for a few days:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... ch-warrant

This is really sad and ridiculous. Short version is that Alec Baldwin fired a gun that wasn't supposed to be loaded and it killed a cinematographer and injured the director, both of whom were huddled around a camera when it went off.

The assistant director (AD) got a gun off a cart that was supposed to have been checked by the armorer (specifically handles the weapons - this one was the daughter of an experienced armorer and had a couple movies under her belt already). The AD is supposed to verify and declare the gun cold - meaning not loaded - before handing off to the actor. The actor isn't supposed to check that as a rule, though they could probably say "check it again" if they wanted to.

My understanding now is that somehow real bullets got into the gun, and they may have been doing target practice with this gun.

Blanks can kill but that would usually only happen at a close distance. That killed Jon Erik Hexum in the 80s because he was playing with it, maybe thinking it was safe. Sometimes fragments of blanks or other kinds of fake ammo can get stuck in the barrels and this can also cause harm - that's what happened on The Crow. Real bullets should never make it onto a set. Never mind target practice, which actors usually do at an actual range if it's for a movie. There are some clips of Keanu Reeves doing that on YouTube for John Wick.


I know a little about this stuff, but after reading I've learned some more. A few industry-side things haven't been reported very well:

Baldwin is getting a lot of focus as the person holding the gun. He's a producer so he's got some potential liability issues, but as the actor it's not considered his responsibility to check the gun. He should have been told (many times at his age) not to point at anyone when holding it, but it sounds like it went off when he drew it. So that may have genuinely been more accidental than negligent. From what I gather the AD is probably in big trouble, and possibly the armorer, and of course the production company as a whole. Maybe the director too.

A "prop gun" can be a real gun or a fake gun. A prop is anything handled by an actor. If they handle it, it's a prop. If it sits on a shelf, it's set decoration.

"Live rounds" on a movie set doesn't mean the same thing as live rounds in everyday usage. There was some confusion on this story at first because they weren't making that distinction. Live rounds on a set can mean blanks or anything else that can be fired. The baseline is that nothing is loaded, so that's why you say live rounds to make clear something is in there.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I don't know how accurate but the NYT had a piece about the AD getting into trouble on other sets for gun and general safety issues. But now that I look, it appears to be gone from their web site - probably got a call from a lawyer!

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Knowing nothing about the industry, gun, or policies in general it’s tough to comment. But it seems like everyone handling a gun should have proper training.

If there aren’t supposed to be live bullets, fine. But everyone handling the weapon should be able to identify if a gun is loaded or not, IMO.

To be honest, I thought all the guns used in movies were props and incapable of firing live rounds. If actors are handling real guns capable of firing real bullets, seems like everyone along the chain of command should know how to handle them to avoid a single point of failure.

[Jocephus]

surprised this doesn't happen more often honestly, particularly with all the amateur movies that are made

i wonder at what point actors will hold green guns that get digitally painted and sfx added later

[ghostrunner]

There might be some concern about actors checking guns out themselves, which I could see creating more problems than it solves. I think at minimum you'd want one of the knowledgeable handlers there anyway when they do that, which would maybe defeat the purpose. Maybe you have them show the actor, and it could they generally do that. What I've seen a bunch of actors and crew say is that there's a process that's been in place for years - a lot of came after The Crow - and it works 100% of the time if it's being followed. If it isn't then this kind of thing can happen.

On the other hand, it seems to me you should just use complete fakes in case it doesn't go like it's supposed to. The defenses I've seen have been that the loud immediate sound helps the actors react in the moment, which seems solvable. There's kickback which would rely on the actor to duplicate or create some other way. Then the muzzle flash, which at this point which is pretty easy to create in VFX, though it's not always convincing in some people's opinions. They also want the light it creates. To me that all falls kind of flat. I can deal with a bit less realism. There's a thread from the guy who plays Dan on Deadwood, and he seems highly in favor of using real guns and was adamant about the process argument above.

[heyzeus]

I just can't understand how live ammo was on set, and how it got loaded into a prop gun.

I'm not a criminal lawyer, but at worst this is a type of manslaughter. The AD or armorer may have acted with a degree of recklessness that could give rise to criminal liability. Highly doubt any charges could be brought against Baldwin.

I am a civil lawyer, and the civil liability posed here will likely be a law school exam question in torts classes throughout the country this year. Baldwin will be on the hook, both as a producer and as the one holding the weapon. His only defense would have to be that he had no duty to anyone else on set to check the gun to verify it wasn't loaded, and to refrain from pointing it at anyone or pulling the trigger. That's not going over well with any jury.

The studio, director, production company, individual producers, AD, armorer, and Baldwin are about to get a lesson in joint and several liability. A significant and undisclosed settlement is probably already in the works.

[CardsofSTL]

Treat all guns as if they're loaded.
Never point a gun at something you don't want to kill.

[ghostrunner]

What I'm unclear about is the armorer's role in this. They're supposed to be responsible for preparing any weapons needed that day. Sounds like these were just on a cart and she wasn't there and that may have been a Covid mitigation procedure. That is really odd. Wonder if it's more like cost mitigation. I think Covid safety can clearly take a back seat here. Still a lot information missing, so maybe there's more to come on that.

Left out that the camera crew had already quit because of safety concerns (not just gun related), non-union crew was there in their place, and there'd already been misfires from prop guns earlier. That's in the article though.

Treat all guns as if they're loaded.
Never point a gun at something you don't want to kill.

I'm not sure you can feasibly adhere to this on a set (the second part), which is partly why the procedures are so important.

- I shouldn't say you can't. From what I've read the general practice is to use camera angles to try and simulate it, but there are a ton of shots where people fire off weapons and then appear to point the weapons at others or the camera itself. There was a behind the scenes clip of Jamie Lee Curtis going around from Halloween 2018 where she fires off some rounds and then sweeps the gun across the camera crew to place it on a table. Seems like that was all rehearsed, but maybe there's some other safety precaution going on that's not apparent. There is a plexiglass barrier, but that wouldn't have helped here.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/25/movi ... found.html

Detectives found three revolvers, spent casings and ammunition — in boxes, loose and in a fanny pack — when they searched the New Mexico film set where the actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer last week with a gun he had been told did not contain any live rounds, according to an inventory of the items seized that was released on Monday.

The new details emerged four days after Mr. Baldwin shot the cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins, while rehearsing a scene in which he draws a revolver from his holster and points it at the camera, according to an affidavit used to obtain the warrant to search the set. The inventory, filed in Santa Fe County Magistrate Court, did not specify what kind of ammunition was seized, and whether it included regular bullets, blank cartridges or dummies...

Although the inventory did not stipulate what kind of ammunition was recovered, live bullets are generally forbidden on film sets.

Mr. Halls, an industry veteran who worked on films including “Fargo” and “The Matrix Reloaded,” has been the subject of complaints about safety on previous productions. On Monday, a production company, Rocket Soul Studios, said in a statement that Mr. Halls had been fired from the set of a movie, “Freedom’s Path” in 2019 after a gun unexpectedly discharged, causing a minor injury to a crew member. The statement was reported earlier by CNN.

[Socnorb11]

That sounds bad. Spent casings and ammunition just lying around?

That, coupled with the fact that some folks had walked off the set earlier due to safety shortcuts......what a tragic mess.