Do the Cards miss Luhnow & Co.?

[Cheddar Tom]

So I could be wrong...but do the Cardinals miss having Luhnow and his staff overseeing the draft and development? Did any of the development part change when Luhnow left? Just doesn't seem like they are producing the same sort of under-the-radar gems like Rosenthal, Kelly, Siegrist, Maness, Carpenter, Craig, Adams....even Lance Lynn was a transformation. While the Luhnow era was not spotless, they hit on a lot of diamonds in the rough. The Cards definitely hit on Wacha and maybe Marco/Rob Kaminsky....but it does not seem like the talent level at the lower levels is approaching the 2011-2012 "peak."

Hopefully I'm wrong!

[salukifan2]

Unfortunately it is impossible to have the best farm system in baseball every year.

We now have Flaherty (though on the DL right now), Ponce De leon, Kaminsky, Reyes, and Perdomo all pitching very well between A and High A. Who knows, maybe they could be the next round of pitchers. Memphis has Piscotty, who has been on the bad luck side of BABIP after the first month. His ISO after april is 50 points higher than his previous best season in the minors.

Double A has Wilson and Diaz. Both are currently dealing with a similar issue as Piscotty, which is the BABIP gods have not been very kind to them. Wilson's is about 90 points below where it was last season and he is still putting up a 116 wRC+. That dude can hit.

High-A Reyes and Kaminsky are stealing all the headlines, but Voit, Katz, Caldwell, and McElroy are all holding their own in a very tough league.

Also, the cardinals have held back Dixon Llorens, Jose Godoy, KPW, and Vaugn Bryan at extended spring it seems. All 4 have great upside, and Godoy, the catcher, has already started putting it all together on the field. Llorens is a reliever who has held steady a k/9 of 15 for the last three seasons. He has trouble with walking baters, but didn't used to. He also has one of the most marvelous deliveries you will ever see.

And in the low minors there is obviously Sosa, MErcado, Sierra, and Collymore that we can hope for. It is by no means a top 10 system, but there is some serious pitching talent and still some position players in the upper levels that could be part of the big club in the future.

I hope some of this tempers your disappointment.

Edit: What chaps my ass is that we have seen big name Cubans come over and have serious positive impacts. Cespedes, Puig, Chapman, and Abreu. This year another two very intriguing players came along and the Cardinals weren't even interested because of the price, despite the fact that the Cardinals are printing money and everyone knows it. I know we got Diaz, but he was not a big name guy

[Magneto2.0]

It's also kinda hard to tell now. Because nobody could ever envision Carpenter to be who he is. Or a Lance Lynn. Those are just guys becoming better than anyone could ever project based off their skill levels at the time, and they just developed into all-stars.

I think we'll be able to tell over time.

[salukifan2]

It's also kinda hard to tell now. Because nobody could ever envision Carpenter to be who he is. Or a Lance Lynn. Those are just guys becoming better than anyone could ever project based off their skill levels at the time, and they just developed into all-stars.

I think we'll be able to tell over time.

Agreed, however I think in the case of Marp that was just prejudice from national media, and being oveshadowed by the likes of OT, Miller, Cmart, Rosie, Wong, and others in the system. Anyone could see based on his numbers that he was going to be a great hitter.

[Magneto2.0]

It's also kinda hard to tell now. Because nobody could ever envision Carpenter to be who he is. Or a Lance Lynn. Those are just guys becoming better than anyone could ever project based off their skill levels at the time, and they just developed into all-stars.

I think we'll be able to tell over time.

Agreed, however I think in the case of Marp that was just prejudice from national media, and being oveshadowed by the likes of OT, Miller, Cmart, Rosie, Wong, and others in the system. Anyone could see based on his numbers that he was going to be a great hitter.

age too played a factor, I believe, because he didn't become a major league regular until age 26 which is late for most.

[Swirls]

It's also kinda hard to tell now. Because nobody could ever envision Carpenter to be who he is. Or a Lance Lynn. Those are just guys becoming better than anyone could ever project based off their skill levels at the time, and they just developed into all-stars.

I think we'll be able to tell over time.

Agreed, however I think in the case of Marp that was just prejudice from national media, and being oveshadowed by the likes of OT, Miller, Cmart, Rosie, Wong, and others in the system. Anyone could see based on his numbers that he was going to be a great hitter.

Nobody predicted 11 WAR from him in his first two full seasons, along with a SS, a couple ASGs, as well as a Top-5 in MVP voting.

In fact, most people predicted him a future bench/utility player, or a fringe regular. He was drafted as a 23 year old, and was just a few months shy of his 24th birthday when he signed. He was solid, not spectacular in the minors, and was always old for his level.

[Jocephus]

[salukifan2]

It's also kinda hard to tell now. Because nobody could ever envision Carpenter to be who he is. Or a Lance Lynn. Those are just guys becoming better than anyone could ever project based off their skill levels at the time, and they just developed into all-stars.

I think we'll be able to tell over time.

Agreed, however I think in the case of Marp that was just prejudice from national media, and being oveshadowed by the likes of OT, Miller, Cmart, Rosie, Wong, and others in the system. Anyone could see based on his numbers that he was going to be a great hitter.

Nobody predicted 11 WAR from him in his first two full seasons, along with a SS, a couple ASGs, as well as a Top-5 in MVP voting.

In fact, most people predicted him a future bench/utility player, or a fringe regular. He was drafted as a 23 year old, and was just a few months shy of his 24th birthday when he signed. He was solid, not spectacular in the minors, and was always old for his level.

I disagree with the bolded part. He put up three consecutive seasons of better than 125 wRC+ in the minors and had one of above 150. His wOBA was always fantastic, and his on base percentage was always above .400. To me that's pretty spectacular.

[Swirls]

Except for the fact that he was always old for his level.

Putting up a 125 OPS+ in AA as a 20 year old and in AAA as a 21 year old makes you a stud prospect.

Putting it up as a 24 and 25 year old does not.

[salukifan2]

I get that he was old for his level. But his experience in professional baseball was minimal. He came in and hit the ground running. He didn't need to be a top 50 prospect or anything, but in my eyes to label a player who stayed at college four years as inferior just for that is stupid. That's why I am decently high on Jacob Wilson as well. Josh Donaldson is a similar story as well.