Wiecker wrote:It's a good sign when we can complain about our closer blowing his 3rd game out of 21 attempts*.
Why is there so much contempt for Izzy? Is it because he likes to put some runners on, almost every time he pitches? Would there be any debate if he was a 1-2-3 guy except for those 3 games and was still 18/21?
Granted that him being a 1-2-3 guy would be less stressful in the 9th, but he gets the job done as is.
*IIRC
There's contempt for Izzy tonight because he blew a very winnable game that was pretty much in our hands from the 5th inning on, at a time where we really cannot afford to lose games like that.
I've been defending Izzy till I'm blue in the face all year long, I really have... but the loss tonight is totally and completely on him. And I'm sure he knows it.
bronx_bird wrote:It's time to think about some ch-ch-ch-changes. It really is.
I don't know about that. Yeah, this is frustrating. But he still gets it done enough to justify being the closer for a contending team. He would really have to implode to justify moving him out of the role.
What do you consider 'getting it done'? With the number of baserunners he's given up, his success in save situations could be construed as being a matter of time before he implodes, rather than a display of an ability to finish the game.
Wow, that was worded terribly, I hope my point got across.
I mean that, as someone posted above, he has converted 18 of 21 attempts (I'm assuming that figure is right). I admit that he is pitching terribly in the process, just getting the saves by the skin of his teeth, but he is still getting the saves at a satisfactory, though not ideal, rate.
So then I guess my question is that do you see that as Izzy's ability to get out of jams/close the door/etc., or a streak of good fortune that won't continue at his current peripheral performance?
I think it's too early to tell. I can understand everyone's anxiety. I don't feel confident either when he comes in, but he has never been a shut down guy. For the last three years we have watched him come in, walk a guy, give up a base hit, then manage to get out of it.
Replacing the closer is a drastic move that shakes up the entire bullpen. Izzy is a known commodity that we have to stick with until we know that he has simply lost the ability to close games.
Can you imagine how bad it would be to demote Izzy, replace him with Wainwright, only to watch Wainwright struggle as a rookie in an unfamiliar role? That would be disastrous.
Great post cardsfansince82, and I agree I don't think you just give up on izzy. But his walks per inning are alarming for a closer. As the closer you have to come in throwing strikes. I think the reason everyone is so concerned is that this seems to be a nightly pattern. (the walks not Junior hitting the ball half way to Columbia). And it seems like he has to pull himself out of jams repeatedly.
bronx_bird wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm not a the-sky-is-falling type guy at all. I just have never considered Izzy a championship team-caliber closer...and I felt like the last couple of years, we could have won in spite of this. I'm not feeling like that this year. He's a quality pitcher and racks up good numbers, but I do not think he's the proper late-game anchor for winning deep in the playoffs. I'm also not suggesting any of the younger guys out there are obvious candidates to step up into this role, either...but I wouldn't get bent out of shape if the deck were shuffled a bit in the coming games/weeks.
The entire bullpen blew this game.
The only reason the bullpen ERA is so low is because the runs they are allowing keep getting charged to the starters.
Elphie1 wrote:
There's contempt for Izzy tonight because he blew a very winnable game that was pretty much in our hands from the 5th inning on, at a time where we really cannot afford to lose games like that.
I've been defending Izzy till I'm blue in the face all year long, I really have... but the loss tonight is totally and completely on him. And I'm sure he knows it.
I get just as mad as the next guy when Izzy blows it especially in a game like tonights, but I try to look at the big picture. Maybe if he blows 2 or 3 more games in the next couple weeks I might start to think differently, but I'm still a fan right now.
Maybe it is just when he tries to save games which would give the SP their 100th win. Did it with Mulder and now with Suppan. Conspiracy theory?
Elphie1 wrote:
There's contempt for Izzy tonight because he blew a very winnable game that was pretty much in our hands from the 5th inning on, at a time where we really cannot afford to lose games like that.
I've been defending Izzy till I'm blue in the face all year long, I really have... but the loss tonight is totally and completely on him. And I'm sure he knows it.
I get just as mad as the next guy when Izzy blows it especially in a game like tonights, but I try to look at the big picture. Maybe if he blows 2 or 3 more games in the next couple weeks I might start to think differently, but I'm still a fan right now.
Maybe it is just when he tries to save games which would give the SP their 100th win. Did it with Mulder and now with Suppan. Conspiracy theory?
I agree with you to a certain extent however Izzy's WHIP is very troubling. It's not like he's been lights out in the saves he's getting.
I don't think it's replacing Izzy so much as it is recognizing when he doesn't have it and not staying with him until it is too late.
Tonight he obviously had control problems - perhaps even worse than usual. When it got to 2 men on, one out, and 2 powerful lefties coming up, why wasn't consideration given to bringing in the lefty (TJohnson) to face them? Because he's too young? Because he's not the closer? I know Tony would've faced massive criticism had he brought him in and Griffey or Dunn took him deep. And as I said before, I only "saw" the game on Gameday, so I didn't see what most of you saw (and they're going to be talking about the Yanks-Sox for at least 20 more minutes on BBTN, so I may never see it....)
Michael wrote:But who else? We gotta stick with Izzy for now.
if he does this over and over then why can't TLR use other people when he's screwing the pooch. Seriously name one other RH RP who TLR leaves in to face a LH hitter after he's just let 2 of the first 3 guys on base.
I wouldn't argue if he brought a LH in then, even though I too have defended izzy all year long. Izzy's still the closer but his walks are seriously outrageously out of hand. If you keep walking them someone's going to pop one and cost the game.
And jeesh he had jr on 2 lame swings and then sends in a lollipop with 2 strikes??????
