Civil Rights Up for Vote

[clement]

Well I gave the example of interracial marriage because it's an issue where public opinion was quite strongly in the wrong direction at one time in our recent history. Though the Bible does say that Christians should not marry non-Christians. I'm waiting for the Christian fundamentalists to make a stink about inter-faith marriages.

Or maybe we should try to put the issue of slavery or ethnic cleansing up for a public vote for Constitutional amendment and if see if the Bible believers vote to restore the legality of these two practices.

I love this place, especially when I need laughs.

Typical snarky response from you that has zero substance. But what do I expect from a strict Biblical interpretationist like yourself who doesn't even know what the Bible says about slavery.

[clement]

For me it's semantics. I'm Christian and am in favor of civil unions and all the rights inherent to marriage, I just prefer that it not be called "Marriage".

Why? How in the world does it affect you or your faith? Trust me, there are plenty of gay people who get married and call themselves married. The only issue is whether or not the state (not your church) recognizes it as such. Why should the state recognize a marriage performed in one church, but not in another? Doesn't the first amendment mean anything anymore? What other popular measures should we put up for a vote to restrict freedoms? Who will be the next target? Muslims? Jews? Immigrants?

Everyone is entitled to their preferences. Legislating preferences of one group to restrict the rights or opportunities of another is a completely different matter. I have any number of preferences that I would like to see happen. But I'm not about to go around suggesting that the Constitution be amended to suit my preferences.

[BW23]

Well I gave the example of interracial marriage because it's an issue where public opinion was quite strongly in the wrong direction at one time in our recent history. Though the Bible does say that Christians should not marry non-Christians. I'm waiting for the Christian fundamentalists to make a stink about inter-faith marriages.

Or maybe we should try to put the issue of slavery or ethnic cleansing up for a public vote for Constitutional amendment and if see if the Bible believers vote to restore the legality of these two practices.

I love this place, especially when I need laughs.

Typical snarky response from you that has zero substance. But what do I expect from a strict Biblical interpretationist like yourself who doesn't even know what the Bible says about slavery.

Forgive me if I don't follow your interpretations.

[clement]

Well I gave the example of interracial marriage because it's an issue where public opinion was quite strongly in the wrong direction at one time in our recent history. Though the Bible does say that Christians should not marry non-Christians. I'm waiting for the Christian fundamentalists to make a stink about inter-faith marriages.

Or maybe we should try to put the issue of slavery or ethnic cleansing up for a public vote for Constitutional amendment and if see if the Bible believers vote to restore the legality of these two practices.

I love this place, especially when I need laughs.

Typical snarky response from you that has zero substance. But what do I expect from a strict Biblical interpretationist like yourself who doesn't even know what the Bible says about slavery.

Forgive me if I don't follow your interpretations.

I love this place, especially when I need laughs.

[Radbird]

For me it's semantics. I'm Christian and am in favor of civil unions and all the rights inherent to marriage, I just prefer that it not be called "Marriage".

So what if it was decided that was not fair, and to fix it the state says that it will not use the term marriage, only civil union? For everybody. Retroactively. Your church can call it marriage if they want, but that's a religious term. The state doesn't recognize baptisms or confirmations, why marriages?

To me, that's where this is headed. So be careful what you ask for.

[Cronos]

For me it's semantics. I'm Christian and am in favor of civil unions and all the rights inherent to marriage, I just prefer that it not be called "Marriage".

Why? How in the world does it affect you or your faith?

It doesn't really matter to me one way or another. If it did, I'd be more vociferous and involved in supporting or banning gay marriage rights.

Trust me, there are plenty of gay people who get married and call themselves married. The only issue is whether or not the state (not your church) recognizes it as such. Why should the state recognize a marriage performed in one church, but not in another?

I'm saying they should recognize it as such. And yes, the first amendment still matters. What people choose to call themselves and their relationships is their own business (I can't nor want to make a gay couple not call themselves "Married" if they wish to) and what I choose to consider themselves and their relationships (as long as I'm not harboring resentment, hatred or favor towards a particular group through my thoughts, words written or spoken or actions) is my business.

Everyone is entitled to their preferences. Legislating preferences of one group to restrict the rights or opportunities of another is a completely different matter. I have any number of preferences that I would like to see happen. But I'm not about to go around suggesting that the Constitution be amended to suit my preferences.

And like I said, whether it will ever realistically happen or not, I am in support for equal marriage rights and priveleges contained within the state/federal/whatever law to be given in gay marriage.

Yes I understand it's a hypothetical right now, but allowing for all the same rights and priveleges therein, what does it matter what I call it?

Finally, note my verbiage: "Prefer", not "Demand".

[Cronos]

For me it's semantics. I'm Christian and am in favor of civil unions and all the rights inherent to marriage, I just prefer that it not be called "Marriage".

So what if it was decided that was not fair, and to fix it the state says that it will not use the term marriage, only civil union? For everybody. Retroactively. Your church can call it marriage if they want, but that's a religious term. The state doesn't recognize baptisms or confirmations, why marriages?

To me, that's where this is headed. So be careful what you ask for.

I wouldn't really have a problem with that either. I'd still consider myself married just the same(if it were ever to happen), people would still continue to use the term whether the state denotes it as such or not.

I don't care that the state doesn't recognize baptisms. I do. My family does. The members of my family who share my faith do. And the people in general who share my faith do as well. That's all that really matters to me.

[clement]

Yes I understand it's a hypothetical right now, but allowing for all the same rights and priveleges therein, what does it matter what I call it?

It doesn't matter at all if you're saying you wouldn't vote for a Proposition 8 type of initiative. Otherwise it matters a great deal.

[Cronos]

Yes I understand it's a hypothetical right now, but allowing for all the same rights and priveleges therein, what does it matter what I call it?

It doesn't matter at all if you're saying you wouldn't vote for a Proposition 8 type of initiative. Otherwise it matters a great deal.

Considering how much the media and the country continue to turn me into a cynic on all things political and representative government, I'm leaning more and more toward not voting on anything, much less a controversial and dividing state issue such as this one.

[redbirdjazzz]

It's not like marriage is a Judeo-Christian invention. Marriage may be a Christian Sacrament, but it's also a cultural universal. Every culture that has ever existed has had some form of marriage, and they haven't all been defined as being between one man and one woman. I'm a Christian, but I think people need both a better understanding of history and anthropology, and the separation of church and state.