NBA 10-11

[jim]

How do people argue that the NBA game is superior to the college game

Better players and better coaching. Is there some third category that should matter that would give college basketball the edge?

Seriously, last year's national championship game had a stretch of no scoring for over 10 minutes. Garbage.

I really have to be in the right frame of mind to watch a college basketball game. It's just .. well alot of garbage.

[ghostrunner]

How do people argue that the NBA game is superior to the college game

Better players and better coaching. Is there some third category that should matter that would give college basketball the edge?

Seriously, last year's national championship game had a stretch of no scoring for over 10 minutes. Garbage.

Aren't you a soccer fan?

What about defense? I'm not suggesting we need 50 or 60 point games, but at least make some convincing effort at stopping the guy going to the basket.

On that note, I just checked out the Clippers page to see the team stats and noticed Eric Gordon's numbers. The guy left IU for the NBA after his freshman year, and in my opinion was far from where (IMO) an NBA-ready player should be. He could shoot extremely well, and he was fast, but he made stupid mistakes and he looked sloppy much of the time. I noticed too that his FG% is higher every year in the NBA than it was in college. It's somewhat marginal, but if he's going to a league of superior players (assuming they know how to play defense) shouldn't he take a hit there? At least in his first year?


Haha, OK. The worst offender defensively in that Griffin clip is number 10 for the T-wolves, Jonny Flynn. According to this thread, he's terrible defensively:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtop ... &t=1081139

Maybe Griffin just exploited a weakness, but it seems like I see too much of this whenever I do tune in to a pro game.

[Maclowery]

Well, you're looking at one player. Tons of very good college players stink it up in the pros. Heck, my Bulls start Keith Bogans, who was a volume scorer in college, apparently.

Anyway, I think college games - in-conference or tournament ones at least - are in general much more exciting (assuming no ties to any team involved) than a standard pro game. But, I'm definitely an NBA fan more than a college BBall fan, and I watch it because of the much higher skill of play, and the entertainment of off-court stuff, mostly trade ideas, long-term team building, etc. Sometimes I feel like I pay more attention to baseball and basketball during the off-season than when the games are on TV.

[cardsfansince82]

College basketball has better fans and more consistent intensity and effort throughout the game from the players. NBA games don't really start until the 3rd quarter. College basketball also has the best postseason of any sport hands down. That's about it.

On that note, I just checked out the Clippers page to see the team stats and noticed Eric Gordon's numbers. The guy left IU for the NBA after his freshman year, and in my opinion was far from where (IMO) an NBA-ready player should be. He could shoot extremely well, and he was fast, but he made stupid mistakes and he looked sloppy much of the time. I noticed too that his FG% is higher every year in the NBA than it was in college. It's somewhat marginal, but if he's going to a league of superior players (assuming they know how to play defense) shouldn't he take a hit there? At least in his first year?

Gordon was 19 years old at IU and was the number one scoring option. Defenses focused on stopping him and he still achieved quite a bit of success. He's 22 now and becoming a complete player. His first two years in the NBA he was mostly a spot up shooter taking wide open shots on the wing so he shot a good percentage. That gave him time to develop his game. He's leading the Clippers in scoring but they still have Griffin and others to take defensive pressure off of him.

[thrill]

How do people argue that the NBA game is superior to the college game

Better players and better coaching. Is there some third category that should matter that would give college basketball the edge?

Seriously, last year's national championship game had a stretch of no scoring for over 10 minutes. Garbage.

Players that care?

Prove that.

Aren't you a soccer fan?

That's so weak. Yes I am a soccer fan and I'm also a baseball fan. I would really not enjoy a baseball game in which a team won 102-87.


Taking a highlight from one of the most unstoppable physical players to ever play NBA basketball and using it as an indictment of defense in the NBA is kind of a joke. Johnny Fynn is a 6-3 point guard. You want him to put a body in front of 6'11 Griff, probably commit a foul and definitely get put through Stacey King's TM poster machine?

You guys like your corrupt amateur league, I get that. It's fine. There are a lot of fun things about college basketball like the crowds, the fact that if you went to the school saying "we" actually makes some sense when referring to your team and if you're someone who doesn't like the wealth pro players make thats cool too. Just don't pretend the level of play is any good compared to the pros.

Oh by the way, not a lot of hellacious defense being played in this video either.

[/youtube]

Gordon was 19 years old at IU and was the number one scoring option. Defenses focused on stopping him and he still achieved quite a bit of success. He's 22 now and becoming a complete player. His first two years in the NBA he was mostly a spot up shooter taking wide open shots on the wing so he shot a good percentage. That gave him time to develop his game. He's leading the Clippers in scoring but they still have Griffin and others to take defensive pressure off of him.

Yeah all this. Playing with better players makes great players play better or something.

Also, Gordon is jacked. He's put on a ton of muscle and it's really helped his offensive game. More durable, better finisher and creates more space for himself.

[ghostrunner]

Heh. The soccer thing was a joke, of course. And I'm losing interest in college ball gradually, so I'm definitely not inclined to champion it over the NBA without reason. I didn't even go to the school I root for.

I'm not really arguing the capability is better or that college players are better. I'm saying that the overall play is better because at least (it seems to me) that there's some genuine effort in trying to stop the other team from scoring. And I find it hard to believe that Gordon would do just as well in the pros as he did in college if there were a higher level of defensive play against him, which it seems should be the case if this is the cream of the crop. I saw quite a bit of him with IU and he was truly overeager and sloppy.

Do you think defense as it's played in the NBA is as intense or better relative to college?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How do people argue that the NBA game is superior to the college game

Better players and better coaching. Is there some third category that should matter that would give college basketball the edge?

Seriously, last year's national championship game had a stretch of no scoring for over 10 minutes. Garbage.

Players that care?

Prove that.

I'll rephrase. A season of appropriate length. The college basketball season is less than half as long, adding a greater sense of urgency to each game while not making it a football-esque win-or-die dynamic. In the NBA there is extremely little lost for losing a single game until the playoffs, and that definitely manifests itself in the general attitude the players, coaches, and fans have towards the game.

[thrill]

To your point about Eric Gordon, Michael Jordan averaged over 20 points a game in college exactly once in three seasons. His rookie year in the NBA he averaged 28. This isn't because defense is played better in college. It's because of what I'm about to post below.

Do you think defense as it's played in the NBA is as intense or better relative to college?

Let me put it this way, defensive schemes matter more in the college game. This is because individual athleticism is so inferior to the NBA. Offensive players are easier to stop because they can are capable of less. Also defenses that are illegal in the NBA due to things like the 3 second rule or not being allowed to move off the zone and triple team the ball are perfectly legal in college basketball. This is the biggest difference in style. Good, cohesive zone defense is a huge equalizer for a athletically inferior squad. Also, the shot clock in college is 12 seconds longer. Because of this, offense moves much slower which creates the illusion that defenses are better. Third, talent is so watered down due to the amount of teams and the youth of the players, offense aren't as effective.

NBA is the evolutionary peak of basketball because the level of athleticism, experience and ability of the players and coaches are largely equal from even the worst to the best players in the NBA compared to the disparity in talent and ability between college teams. For example, a quick glance at last night's NCAA scores show Northwestern 98, Edwardsville 55; VA Tech 74, Maryland 57, Washington 85, Arizona 68, USC 65, Stanford 42. Something that is evidence of the NBA parity is the schemes and techniques. Largely, NBA offenses and defenses are the same. There are a few outliers like Phil Jackson's triangle offense and Tom Thibodeau's defense that has consistently been in the top 5 almost every year of his career, but largely it's nearly equal. Since everything is so relatively even, systems are honed to very simple, very consistent techniques.

I guess someone might enjoy watching a one armed man fight a one legged man to see who won, but personally I would rather see the two heavyweight boxers go at it. That's essentially the difference between college and pro basketball except that in basketball, the heavyweight boxers spend a minimum of one year, kicking handicapped ass before they go pro.

I'll rephrase. A season of appropriate length. The college basketball season is less than half as long, adding a greater sense of urgency to each game while not making it a football-esque win-or-die dynamic. In the NBA there is extremely little lost for losing a single game until the playoffs, and that definitely manifests itself in the general attitude the players, coaches, and fans have towards the game.

That's fair, it's just not enough for me to get over the talent disparity, the exploitation by coaches, agents and the NCAA of the student athletes and the rampant corruption in the college game.

[stlouie_lipp]

I guess someone might enjoy watching a one armed man fight a one legged man to see who won, but personally I would rather see the two heavyweight boxers go at it. That's essentially the difference between college and pro basketball except that in basketball, the heavyweight boxers spend a minimum of one year, kicking handicapped ass before they go pro.

This made me laugh .

[Radbird]

I would like to get back into following the NBA (and NHL for that matter) more closely. This thread is helping.