College Football ToughCalls Week 5

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Stupid ND, I don't think I've gotten one pick right with them yet.

Go Hawks! Got to watch a lot of the game; our offense has been pretty wimpy, but, man, defense has been just dominating. Fun to watch. Adrian Claybourns gonna give the Lions' QB nightmares.

Hawkeyes defense alone makes them a top 10 team, in my opinion. The flukey loss at Arizona was unfortunate, otherwise the Hawks would probably be looking at top 5, with a favorable schedule.

At the risk of starting another "Iowa stampede", in what way exactly was that loss flukey? Weren't they down 27-7 at halftime, and had a furious rally just to make it close?

Well, half of those 27 points came on an 85 yard INT return and a 100 yard kickoff return, although mitigated by Iowa's own 20 yard INT return later in the game. I don't know if fluky is the word I'd use, but the defense only gave up 20 in that game.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Stupid ND, I don't think I've gotten one pick right with them yet.

Go Hawks! Got to watch a lot of the game; our offense has been pretty wimpy, but, man, defense has been just dominating. Fun to watch. Adrian Claybourns gonna give the Lions' QB nightmares.

Hawkeyes defense alone makes them a top 10 team, in my opinion. The flukey loss at Arizona was unfortunate, otherwise the Hawks would probably be looking at top 5, with a favorable schedule.

At the risk of starting another "Iowa stampede", in what way exactly was that loss flukey? Weren't they down 27-7 at halftime, and had a furious rally just to make it close?

Well, half of those 27 points came on an 85 yard INT return and a 100 yard kickoff return, although mitigated by Iowa's own 20 yard INT return later in the game. I don't know if fluky is the word I'd use, but the defense only gave up 20 in that game.

And if Arizona had only scored 20 points then Iowa would have won. Ergo, Iowa didn't really lose! Wait....

[phins]

The return TD's are what made it flukey? I mean defense or specials make a play doesn't seem real flukey. It's not like they kicked a ball into the air in the end zone and had a diving catch, or used a 5th down or anything.


I just thing Arizona is pretty good, and played it conservative once they had a lead, but I'm not digging my heels in or anything. There were definitely a few "non-regular" TD's scored.

[vinsanity]

The return TD's are what made it flukey? I mean defense or specials make a play doesn't seem real flukey. It's not like they kicked a ball into the air in the end zone and had a diving catch, or used a 5th down or anything.

I think the idea is Defensive/ST TD's are hard to repeat. It's as much about bad ST coverage (on returns) and lucky personnel locations on INT returns as it is 'ability'. That doesn't mean that some people can't be better at it - DB's who see the field more clearly and have better running ability/instincts - but that it's really something you should bank on for a win.

[phins]

Woodson, Reed et al show interceptions can be a result of proper positioning, rushing the passer, and circumstance. I disagree quite a bit that it isn't a repeatable skill. Returning them for TD's maybe isn't repeatable, but you don't have to give the ball up if you're tackled on the 10 instead of the end zone.

Returns are most definitely a repeatable skill. Again, for TD's maybe not as much, but again getting tackled after a 60 yard isn't anymore flukey or lucky than ripping off a 60 yard run on offense.

I still haven't heard anything showing the win was flukey, but no worries. Ariizona was the better teamthat night in my view. It happens, doesn't mean Iowa isn't really good, and even better coached.

[Socnorb11]

Stupid ND, I don't think I've gotten one pick right with them yet.

Go Hawks! Got to watch a lot of the game; our offense has been pretty wimpy, but, man, defense has been just dominating. Fun to watch. Adrian Claybourns gonna give the Lions' QB nightmares.

Hawkeyes defense alone makes them a top 10 team, in my opinion. The flukey loss at Arizona was unfortunate, otherwise the Hawks would probably be looking at top 5, with a favorable schedule.

At the risk of starting another "Iowa stampede", in what way exactly was that loss flukey? Weren't they down 27-7 at halftime, and had a furious rally just to make it close?

Arizona's first TD was the result of a blocked punt.

Iowa drove down the field, and Arizona returned an interception 84 yards for their second TD.

Then Arizona scored another TD on a kickoff return.

Iowa just never plays well out west, for whatever reason.

"Flukey" might be a little much. Iowa made some mistakes, and Arizona made them pay. It's one of those games where you go away saying "If these teams play 10 times, Iowa probably wins 7".

But you're right, it doesn't really matter. Iowa lost that night. It's just unfortunate, because I think they can compete with the top 5-10 teams in the country.

[vinsanity]

Woodson, Reed et al show interceptions can be a result of proper positioning, rushing the passer, and circumstance. I disagree quite a bit that it isn't a repeatable skill. Returning them for TD's maybe isn't repeatable, but you don't have to give the ball up if you're tackled on the 10 instead of the end zone.

Returns are most definitely a repeatable skill. Again, for TD's maybe not as much, but again getting tackled after a 60 yard isn't anymore flukey or lucky than ripping off a 60 yard run on offense.

I still haven't heard anything showing the win was flukey, but no worries. Ariizona was the better teamthat night in my view. It happens, doesn't mean Iowa isn't really good, and even better coached.

Right that was my first statement.

I think the idea is Defensive/ST TD's are hard to repeat.

I very much agree that INT's are a skill, proper positioning, good coverage, knowing when to make a jump on a route, watching the QB's eyes etc. But if you jump in front of a hook route to grab the ball, the WR is likely going to drag you down. If you out jump a WR and snatch the ball on a fly, you're probably going to be coming down on the ground. Now, some D-Backs will see the field better once they have the ball - think Deion Sanders - and might be a little bit better than the average joe, but it's not something you can count on every day.

I also agree that returners have some skill as well, breaking some tackles, smart moves and a good eye for openings. However, I'd argue this one is even less skill than returning an INT - how many return guys do great on two teams? I'd say kick and punt returns for TD's are 95% poor coverage by the kick team and great blocking by the receiving team. Once the lane opens up, most speedy returners are going to get it up the field. I'd say a 60 yard return is more 'flukey' than a 60 yard run. The angles are less pronounced in kickoffs, the distance from the first line of defense to the last is much greater (harder to get past the last guy).

I dunno know enough about the game to say it was a fluke or whatever, but you can't count on a Pick-6 or Kick Return to score points for you if you want to consistently win games - so TT was saying Zona getting 14 points that way (while being up 20 at half) wasn't really 'skill'. Now, the more INT's or Kick Returns you have the more chances you have at breaking one - so putting yourself in that position is a good thing.

But your right, it is what it is.

[phins]

I get what you're saying Vin, and think we agree for the most part.

[vinsanity]

I get what you're saying Vin, and think we agree for the most part.

No we partly disagree and therefore must argue to the death!