Rave: College Football is Back Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Alabama just played one San Jose St, so shouldn't they get a ding? So far Boise is the only team to have beaten a Top 10 ranked team, so shouldn't they get a point for that?

They're essentially tied for 2nd with more 1st place votes than the #2 team (OSU). No matter what, they're not going to be ranked above Alabama b/c well AL won the National Championship last year. On top of that, it doesn't matter if they are because Alabama is going to play, in the span of 4 weeks, 3 top 20 (penn state, arkansas, florida) teams with the off week being duke. They'll follow that up with a trip to USC and then in their second half they'll play another couple top 25 teams (auburn and lsu). Unlike Bosie, it doesn't matter what AL is ranked, they'll prove how worthy they are on the field during the season.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

They should have pitted TCU and Boise against major conference teams last year and see where they stood. Worst case? They get blown out, and you know they can't matchup.

You can't look at 1 game and make a determination as to how good a team is, imo. It's the sum of the parts. And, really the main reason there needs to be a playoff system.

I would love for Boise State to play Penn State next week and follow that up with a Wyoming and then play Ohio State. That, to me, would be entertaining and a lot better measure of how good they are than Boise State beat VT, therefore, Boise State = best team in ACC/top 2 team overall....or whatever you're trying to say.

[obucard]

They should have pitted TCU and Boise against major conference teams last year and see where they stood. Worst case? They get blown out, and you know they can't matchup.

For the BCS, the worst case would be they win, suggesting that maybe they can matchup. For a system that depends on the idea that the lesser 5 can't compete with the Big 6, such a move would be disaster (so instead they put the two against each other, allowing them to fall back on the schedule strength argument).

[lukethedrifter]

[/youtube]

[vinsanity]

Alabama just played one San Jose St, so shouldn't they get a ding? So far Boise is the only team to have beaten a Top 10 ranked team, so shouldn't they get a point for that?

They're essentially tied for 2nd with more 1st place votes than the #2 team (OSU). No matter what, they're not going to be ranked above Alabama b/c well AL won the National Championship last year. On top of that, it doesn't matter if they are because Alabama is going to play, in the span of 4 weeks, 3 top 20 (penn state, arkansas, florida) teams with the off week being duke. They'll follow that up with a trip to USC and then in their second half they'll play another couple top 25 teams (auburn and lsu). Unlike Bosie, it doesn't matter what AL is ranked, they'll prove how worthy they are on the field during the season.

So you can't look at what Boise has done the last few years (consistently winning every game on their schedule, and beating Top-25 teams year in and year out), you can only give credit for who they do play (VT) and ding them for teams they haven't played yet (San Jose St), but you can credit Bama on what they did last year, who they will play but you won't ding them for they have played.

I was making an exaggeration to prove my point. The thing is, the current system will never, ever reward Boise even if they didn't allow a point all season and beat an NFL team. The current system rewards teams like Bama and OSU for scheduling a team like San Jose St, because they play 2 or 3 big games and 5 or 6 mediocre teams, then 2 or 3 cupcakes. As long as they win those they are supposed, if they lose a big game early (like second week), they can easily climb back in the rankings. There's no reason for them to risk losing to Boise when they can beat San Jose St and still make the championship. They will never voluntarily schedule Boise. So Boise is doing it's best to prove itself but can't get anyone good to play them (next year will be a little better). If you don't think Boise is as good as Bama or OSU then don't [expletive] vote them to #3. Otherwise if they win out and one of Bama/OSU lose one game - Boise deserves a chance. The voters say so.

They should have pitted TCU and Boise against major conference teams last year and see where they stood. Worst case? They get blown out, and you know they can't matchup.

You can't look at 1 game and make a determination as to how good a team is, imo. It's the sum of the parts. And, really the main reason there needs to be a playoff system.

I would love for Boise State to play Penn State next week and follow that up with a Wyoming and then play Ohio State. That, to me, would be entertaining and a lot better measure of how good they are than Boise State beat VT, therefore, Boise State = best team in ACC/top 2 team overall....or whatever you're trying to say.

I"m trying to say the voters are [expletive] up for saying 'Boise is the third best team in our ranking system, but we'll never actually make them #1 or #2' Then I tried to use your logic (you get dinged for playing San jose St and rewarded for playing major conference teams) to show that's not true, if it were Bama would get dinged for playing San Jose St and Boise would get rewarded for beating a Top 10 team. The system works in the favor of Major Conference teams, even if they aren't the best.

As OBU pointed out, it's not that you can use 1 game to determine how good a team is. What I'm saying is last year, there were 10 teams in BCS games. 8 from major conferences. Now, Bama Texas - fine, don't give Boise or TCU a title shot since there were 4 undefeated teams.

But that left OSU, Oregon, Florida, Iowa, Ga Tech and Cincy. Florida destroyed Cincy, Iowa and OSU took care of Oregon and Ga Tech, couldn't they have matched up say OSU and Boise then TCU and Oregon? Let Iowa play Ga Tech? Or swap Cincy and Boise/TCU? I'm pretty sure people probably take Cincy a little less seriously after getting demolished by UF, so what if Boise/TCU win that game? What if they keep it close and respectable? Do those teams maybe deserve a little credit for two undefeated seasons? Should they get a look at the national title if they are the only undefeated? It probably didn't happen for that exact reason.

[cardsfansince82]

So you're basically agreeing that nobody schedules Boise St because they're afraid of losing to them, right?

I already spelled out why teams don't schedule them. There's more money to be made elsewhere and no one wants to play on that [expletive] field in the middle of Canada or whatever. Again, a loss is a loss. If anything, losing to Boise or beating Boise is better than losing to/beating just about any other team in the country. Why? Because barring a down year they are almost guaranteed to be highly ranked at the end of the season. That's either a big boost or a small ding to a team's resume. Even if people aren't satisfied with the love Boise gets from human polls, computer polls are still a big component of the BCS and gives teams with great records plenty of love. Your chances at getting a BCS bid have to do with when you lose and who you lose to. Miami could beat OSU and then lose 3 times the rest of the way. That hurts OSU's chances more than Virginia Tech losing to Boise and then running the table with their only loss to a top 5 team.

I was making an exaggeration to prove my point. The thing is, the current system will never, ever reward Boise even if they didn't allow a point all season and beat an NFL team. The current system rewards teams like Bama and OSU for scheduling a team like San Jose St, because they play 2 or 3 big games and 5 or 6 mediocre teams, then 2 or 3 cupcakes. As long as they win those they are supposed, if they lose a big game early (like second week), they can easily climb back in the rankings. There's no reason for them to risk losing to Boise when they can beat San Jose St and still make the championship. They will never voluntarily schedule Boise. So Boise is doing it's best to prove itself but can't get anyone good to play them (next year will be a little better). If you don't think Boise is as good as Bama or OSU then don't [expletive] vote them to #3. Otherwise if they win out and one of Bama/OSU lose one game - Boise deserves a chance. The voters say so.

Those teams climb back up because they have to beat a lot of quality teams to win the rest of the way. You say big teams play 2 or 3 big games, 5 or 6 mediocre and 2 or three cupcakes. Playing a road game against a middle of the pack BCS conference team is tougher than 90% of Boise's schedule. There are 65 teams in the 6 BCS conferences. Every single one of them plays a tougher schedule. Six conference champions and then at most 4 of those 65 teams can get a BCS bid without winning their conference. Boise has to win one big game (if that), 2 or 3 mediocre games and 8-9 cupcakes and they get a big payday and national exposure. Who's getting treated unfairly here?

BTW, I was begging for them to be matched up with Florida last year. If they beat Florida I would concede they deserve a shot.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Vin,

As 82 points out, saying '5-6 mediocre games' is a disservice to teams like auburn, penn state, georgia, florida state, etc.

Especially looking at bama's schedule, I'm guessing you're going to say the 2-3 big games are fl and the sec champ?

The 5-6 mediocre games are:
@Lsu
Auburn
@Arkansas
Georgia
@usc
Penn state

The cupcakes are;
Sjst
Miss st
Ole miss
Vandy (I think)
(Missing a team maybe ky?)

Anyway, going w that scenario and putting boise in alabama's shoes, I'd say boise's chances of not losing a mediocre or cupcake as 50-50 at best and that's ignoring the fl game and sec championship.

Say what you want about the system, which I definitely think is broken, but I have a tough time believing a bsu win in a non title game 1.5 months after the season against a team perennially in the natl championship hunt really validates their worth or how much they deserve to be in the nc game.

After thinking about it more, really the only way they can prove how good they are is to take their lumps week in and week out in a bcs power conference and win... Or a 3 game min. Playoff system

[vinsanity]

Those teams climb back up because they have to beat a lot of quality teams to win the rest of the way. You say big teams play 2 or 3 big games, 5 or 6 mediocre and 2 or three cupcakes.

Let me trying wording it a little differently. When Bama/BCS Conference teams win the games they are supposed (regardless of opponent) they are rewarded. If it's San Jose St or Florida or Indiana or Ohio State, road or home, Conference Championship game or not, teams like Bama, OSU, PSU, Florida, Texas USC all get rewarded for a win. As they should be. But if Boise wins every game they are supposed to, they get punished - it's not even indifferent. If the voters don't think Boise is the 3rd best team in the country before a season starts....don't vote the that high.

If they think a 1 loss Big 10 or SEC team is more deserving a National Title shot, then don't vote Boise in to the Top 10. That is my single biggest complaint. I full understand most of their schedule is horrible, but when BCS Conference teams are idle they almost never drop in the standings. When the beat a bad team they almost never slide in the standings. There's almost an unwritten rule that if #1 wins a game, they get to stay at #1, that pretty much as long as #3/4 isn't the one who beats #1, #2 becomes #1. But it also seems there's an unwritten rule that Boise is good enough to be #3, but not #2 no matter what.

Anyway, going w that scenario and putting boise in alabama's shoes, I'd say boise's chances of not losing a mediocre or cupcake as 50-50 at best and that's ignoring the fl game and sec championship.

So what you're saying is, you don't think Boise is as good as Bama. That's fine, then don't give them any 1st place votes or vote them in the top 10. My issue is the voters are inconsistent, in the past it hasn't ever really been about pitting what everyone agrees is the two best teams together. If everyone agreed the 'best' team is Bama, who loses on a last second field goal to Florida in the SEC Championship game, Florida had 1 loss (to Bama), Florida would likely get the National Title invite. Even if Boise runs the table.

BTW, I was begging for them to be matched up with Florida last year. If they beat Florida I would concede they deserve a shot.

Say what you want about the system, which I definitely think is broken, but I have a tough time believing a bsu win in a non title game 1.5 months after the season against a team perennially in the natl championship hunt really validates their worth or how much they deserve to be in the nc game.

Well this is where we fundamentally disagree. People use the SEC's bowl record to show they are they best conference out there and how the Big 10 is over-rated (especially when OSU get's punched in the face by SEC Speed). IMO, a good showing by Boise against Florida in a BCS Game show's it's not a gimmick by just beating cupcakes. It shows they have the talent and system to compete with other BCS Power Conference Teams, but it doesn't prove they deserve to be in the National Championship game - you're right. But, to me, it shows if they win every game they are supposed to - they deserve to be in consideration if they are one of two, or the lone undefeated at the end of a season. They keep beating the power conference teams that will play them, they keep winning bowl games against other top competition, until they prove they aren't capable of running with the big boys, I'm not sure how you can assume otherwise. It's basically saying, since they haven't beaten the top teams in college football, they deserve the chance to beat the top teams in college football. The best team Cincy beat last year was Pitt, by 1 point.

After thinking about it more, really the only way they can prove how good they are is to take their lumps week in and week out in a bcs power conference and win... Or a 3 game min. Playoff system

So even if they scheduled all of their non-conference games against top 10 teams, and won them all, they still wouldn't deserve a shot? Because a BCS Power Conference won't invite them - if the Pac 10 really wanted talented football teams in the Pac 12, why not get Boise instead of Colorado? They are moving to the Moutain West and I don't think BYU, Utah, TCU are anything to scoff at and probably deserve as much credit as most middle of the road power conference teams.

But power conference teams have no incentive to play Boise at any point in the year - if they lose the bowl game their program looks weaker, if they lose in the season they have less of a chance at a bowl or big bowl game. Boise just played an away with Va Tech, on a 'neutral' field. It was one of the highest rated College Broadcasts ever, the stadium I'm pretty sure sold out and it was pretty much a home game for Va Tech - and Boise still won. So people aren't not scheduling them because San Jose St or Toledo or Miami of OH draw better. It's cause they don't wanna lose.

Again, if you don't think Boise is the 3rd best team in the country, then don't vote them that high. If you do think they are the 3rd best and they win the games they are supposed to, don't punish them. If a team ahead of them loses a game they were supposed to win, no matter who it is - i.e. if OSU loses to Northwestern or Purdue or PSU, those are games they should win - drop me in the rankings and move Boise up.

[Maclowery]

Rave-within-a -rave thread:


Man, I am so impatient for the weekend! Feels awesome to be truly excited about your team and all. You know, kinda like mid-May 2010 Cards! Ouch..

Lots of other great games too! Week 3 is a great week, since I feel like college football fans are starting to get a real feel for which teams look good on screen, not just pre-season hype. In my specific case, I feel awesome about the Hawks chances in Arizona on Saturday night. I am hoping for a solid 24-10 kinda win to keep us strongly in the top10, and also a nationally-respected chance to snatch the Big 10 from those scummy Buckeyes!

[cardsfansince82]

I am hoping for a solid 24-10 kinda win to keep us strongly in the top10, and also a nationally-respected chance to snatch the Big 10 from those scummy Buckeyes!

Wisconsin might sneak up on both of you.