World Cup/Soccer for Dummies and soccer silliness

[thrill]

You're both wrong. Yes it was intentional, no he wasn't aiming for Podolski.

The ball is about to cross the end line, what do you do? You center it across the goal mouth. The other forwards know this, so when Mueller crosses it, Klose and Podolski are both making runs towards the center of the area. Klose overran it and Podolski poached in behind him for the finish.

That's fundamentals 101. You learn that in 8 and under leagues. If you have no shot and aren't in position to see your teammates, center it. If your teammate is in deep, you lose your man and run towards the middle or the back post.

I'm pretty sure that's what I posted earlier.

You called it lucky. How is something working the way it's supposed to categorized as luck? That was instinct, ability and preparation. Aka, the opposite of luck.

[vinsanity]

It's not that those things don't take immense amounts of talent, concentration and instinct, it has just always seemed to me like you're move the ball around the field hoping for a lucky shot.

I think soccer is the only sport where I've ever heard a player being described as creative. What you're seeing as luck is someone exploiting an opening in the defense. Take football (American) as an example, where offensive coordinators call particular plays that allow the offense to take advantage of a particular defensive alignment; well that's happening dozens and dozens of times as the ball moves from side to side and up and back at the edge of the defense, without benefit of the eyes of a guy in the sky box calling plays into a QBs helmet.

Sometimes I've heard a basketball sequence labeled creative.

But I don't think I used the word luck, and I understand what your saying about defensive alignments and stuff, and are being a little hyperbolic when you say dozens and dozens? I got it, you move the ball around, try and get a defender out of position pass it around and try for a shot. But the times I've watched the ball usually goes between one or two guys before it's cleared out or taken by the other team. I don't see any sort of structured, cerebral 'plays'. It all seems like reaction/instinct.

Part of the great thing between baseball and football for me is, 'What would I do here? What are they expecting? How did we get here? What's the next best action?'. And to a much lesser extent in basketball. Some of it's just the time I've put in to those sports to kind of understand it. I clearly haven't in soccer, nor do I really know anyone who could try and explain those things - if they exist.

The video that was posted earlier is a good example. The coach or the player didn't call out some code word to dribble down the right side of the field as fast as he could, then center the ball, have the one guy over-run it and the third come and put it in the corner. Even if the guy it was originally intended for had gotten there and kicked it, its still just reaction. Not luck, I understand part of the game is seeing those situations and putting yourself in the right position - almost like rebounding in basketball - to succeed.

And my other problem is a little bit how often those kinds of things happen at all. I remember when I first started to watch some boxing I didn't understand the difference between jabbing, and crossing and body shots - I wanted to see a knockout. You watch a few more and start to figure out what a 'good' boxer is, even if they don't knock anyone out. To me soccer not only lacks a 'knockout', but it's like a boxing match with 95% jabs, and 10-15 'power punches' over the course of 10 rounds.

[Radbird]

I think this is part of the reason I can't get in to Hockey or Soccer - I don't see the 'plays'. It's going to sound hypocritical a lil bit, but it does seem like a lot of just kicking the ball around and hoping for an open shot - no real plays. You move the ball down, hope to find an open guy near the net and try and set up at the right angle to cross the ball so he can shot and the goalie is out of position, right?

There's a lot of things you can teach about what to do in certain situations, but are there any 'plays' called? It's not that those things don't take immense amounts of talent, concentration and instinct, it has just always seemed to me like you're move the ball around the field hoping for a lucky shot.

What do you think of basketball? Does it just look like dribbling around and waiting for a lucky shot to you? Soccer is much the same way, but with so much more space and actual people, it's much more open ended. You have a framework of understanding where people are supposed to be on the field, and an idea of what your responsibilities are when the ball is in a particular spot. From that you have a huge variety of options that can all lead to the same result.

I think if I can get to the point where I understand that framework and the possible strategies and tactics employed, I'll enjoy watching a lot more.

[Fat Strat]

Well, Rad, it might help if you think of it in terms of these three ideas to start with: Triangles, give and go's, and crosses.

Triangles... pause it at the 9 second mark and you'll see several sets of triangles on the field all involving Heske (I think) when he receives the ball. Basically, a triangle is just three guys who can pass to each other to set up a shot. (This one is a little rough because it looks sloppy, but I thought it would be a familiar since it's how England scored their first goal).

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Give and go's... Which is real abstract way is just a two man triangle. Perfect give and go here...

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Crosses... someone makes a run down the side and sends it back into the middle of the pitch in front of the goal for a header or shot. The first two goals here were scored on crosses.

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There's strategy and positioning in setting up all three of those and after a few years of playing, you'll do them naturally. If you start watching a game, keep your eye on the triangles that the players build. It all really starts from there and it helps you anticipate where the ball will go or where the attack might come from.

[Radbird]

That's terrific, Fat. Thanks. Another thing - is there a simple explanation of offsides? I never seem to get that right.

[jim]

That's terrific, Fat. Thanks. Another thing - is there a simple explanation of offsides? I never seem to get that right.

Oh boy, here we go. Best thing to do is keep it simple rad. Basically some guy in shorts but not like you see here holds a flag up. That's offsides.

[greenback44]

That's terrific, Fat. Thanks. Another thing - is there a simple explanation of offsides? I never seem to get that right.

It functions a bit like American football, but the line of scrimmage is effectively where the second-deepest defender is standing. Usually the last defender is the goalie, so that means the line of scrimmage is drawn where the last non-goalie defender stands. However your line of scrimmage cannot be further back than the midfield stripe; i.e. if everybody on their team is on their offensive side of the field, the line of scrimmage is at the soccer equivalent to the 50-yard line.

In the NFL you can't cross the line of scrimmage before the snap, while in soccer you can't cross the line before they kick it in your general vicinity.

You can receive the ball behind the last defender, just like in the NFL, and after the god-awful 1990 World Cup they declared the neutral zone to be fair game, meaning you can be even with the last non-goalie defender. The dudes with the little flags have been known to make the mistake of calling a player offsides because he received the ball far behind the defense, even though the forward was onside at the time the ball was kicked to him. This is OK, because forwards are wussies.

[Fat Strat]

That's terrific, Fat. Thanks. Another thing - is there a simple explanation of offsides? I never seem to get that right.

There's something to what Jim is saying. Just watch for the flag.

Basically, the key to understanding offsides is not where the front offensive player is all the time, but where that player is when a ball is passed forward to him. You have to have 2 defenders between you and the goal when the ball is passed forward. One of those defenders is usually the goalie, but it doesn't have to be.

Defenders can use offsides as a weapon to push and keep the action on the other other teams side of the field. It's a dangerous game, though, because forwards are usually faster then fullbacks and if a defender guesses wrong or doesn't get the call, you've got a real problem on your hand.

[jim]

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I'm going to watch for the flag, with some idea of what offsides is.

Here is a useful site rad,


http://www.corshamref.org.uk/signals.htm

[InvincibleCakeEater]

That's a pretty good MSPaint but where is the dance floor and where did you get punched?