Big Ten Expansion

[ndistops]

Notre Dame really should be forced to being part of a conference, in this day and age you shouldn't be able to play major college ball without being in some sort of a conference. You can't have your cake and eat it also. If you don't want to play in a conference then you shouldn't be allowed to automatically get into a BCS bowl game just because you finished 9-2.

Everyone plays 12 games, so they have to finish 10-2. Seems a lot harder than winning the [expletive] hole that usually is ACC football to me.

[JL21]

If Texas is staying (and OU, etc.) then I don't really see the problem here. You can replace Nebraska and Colorado with two from Utah, TCU, BYU, Cincy, or Air Force and move on like nothing really happened. The conference won't be as good as it used to be, but it will still be a top 4-5 conference year in and year out.

That's only a band-aid, though, assuming we're heading towards a universe of superconferences. Getting back to 12 is a nice start but then you need to snag four more to keep up. Or at least two more. In terms of long-term viability in football, NU and CU had all of those schools trumped. I guess that might change if the newer schools were in a major conference but who knows. And that's also assuming that Mizzou or KU wouldn't balk if the Big Ten came calling.

And last but not least, there are a lot of residual bad feelings that will come from this. Other schools are angry with Mizzou (for apparently having the audacity to do what Texas did, which was being willing to listen to other conferences). The North schools are definitely unhappy with Texas. If the discrepancy in TV dollars continues to flow towards Austin and away from Manhattan, Columbia, Lubbock, etc..., the whole conference is just a powder keg waiting to blow.

[vinsanity]

That's only a band-aid, though, assuming we're heading towards a universe of superconferences. Getting back to 12 is a nice start but then you need to snag four more to keep up. Or at least two more. In terms of long-term viability in football, NU and CU had all of those schools trumped. I guess that might change if the newer schools were in a major conference but who knows. And that's also assuming that Mizzou or KU wouldn't balk if the Big Ten came calling.

Not to knock the Big 12, which has some solid football teams on the the field, I'm not sure they have the TV sets to make it as one of the 'super conferences'. I'm a little surprised that Texas is staying, so maybe the conference has big plans?

[JL21]

That's only a band-aid, though, assuming we're heading towards a universe of superconferences. Getting back to 12 is a nice start but then you need to snag four more to keep up. Or at least two more. In terms of long-term viability in football, NU and CU had all of those schools trumped. I guess that might change if the newer schools were in a major conference but who knows. And that's also assuming that Mizzou or KU wouldn't balk if the Big Ten came calling.

Not to knock the Big 12, which has some solid football teams on the the field, I'm not sure they have the TV sets to make it as one of the 'super conferences'. I'm a little surprised that Texas is staying, so maybe the conference has big plans?

I think as it was constructed, with NU and CU, and the addition of the four best of the most reasonable options (i.e. TCU and Cincinnati would've been great fits), they would've been just fine as a superconference.

Put it this way- which conferences, as they were constructed two weeks ago, had the best combination of success and national recognition, in the two major sports combined (football and hoops)? The Big Ten is an obvious one. The SEC is an obvious one. What does that leave? The Big XII, the Pac 10, the Big East, and the ACC. The Big East is garbage in football. The ACC is very, very good in hoops but is very middling in football (and that's being kind). The Pac 10 isn't really very good at either sport.

Now, though, I see you were referring to TV sets. You had national brands in Nebraska football, KU hoops, Texas in everything, and OU football. Additionally, Mizzou has the STL and KC markets, Colorado had the Denver market, and Iowa State had the Council Bluffs market.

I don't know... I could be way off base but it seems like they'd do just fine as a superconference, assuming they still had NU and CU.

[Popeye_Card]

If the Big 12 stays mostly intact, does the superconference thing even happen then? The whole idea was that the Big Ten and Pac 10 raid the Big 12 to add the top teams, and then the SECOND counters by raiding the Big East, etc. If the Big Ten and Pac 10 each only add one school (Pac 10 may add one more to get even), and the rest of the top schools in the Big 12 stay put, then who do the others add to gain superconference status? Still raiding the Big East? Teams from the WAC or Conference USA won't cut it.

Why does Texas have to ruin everything. Again.

[Popeye_Card]

I don't know why we are dogging the ACC in football. Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech. Some down seasons lately, but there's some strong football programs there. Their football is easily on par with Big Ten b-ball. If not for Kansas, the Big 12 is no great shakes in b-ball.


And the ACC is probably the only other big conference that comes close to matching the Big Ten in academics.

[JL21]

Yeah, that's a great point. I think it'd still happen but at a decelerated pace. All the B16 Ten has to do is tap Mizzou or KU or Rutgers or Syracuse or Pitt or Maryland on the shoulder and they're not going to say no. And then all hell breaks loose again.

So much of it is contingent on Notre Dame. If ND decides to finally join the Big Ten, they'll need another school to pair up with them to bring them to an even 14. And then the floodgates open.

[vinsanity]

Now, though, I see you were referring to TV sets. You had national brands in Nebraska football, KU hoops, Texas in everything, and OU football. Additionally, Mizzou has the STL and KC markets, Colorado had the Denver market, and Iowa State had the Council Bluffs market.

I don't know... I could be way off base but it seems like they'd do just fine as a superconference, assuming they still had NU and CU.

The Big XII might be one of the tops when it comes to the two big sports combined. The Big 10 is pretty good with OSU/PSU but recently they haven't been that competitive on the national stage in football. So I agree, in that sense the Big XII would actually be a great option. Plus, I think having the Pac 10 in the west, the Big Ten in North/Northeast and probably the SEC in the East, the Mid-West seems like the best geographic location.

I agree that Nebraska was a fairly large national brand, and OU to an extent as well. But I don' think Nebraska, OU and Texas football cover enough TV sets to share revenue and bring in as much as the Pac 10/Big 10. I think the primary success of the Big 10 is from Chicago (Northwester, Illinois, Purdue) and Michigan/OSU. If you it was last years Big 12, I think the problem is the teams they could add would only be for the sake of adding. I don't think Utah or TCU really add that much in terms of revenue to the conference.

I guess what I meant was, it seems the Big 10/Pac 10/SEC have enough weight to lure away a top program from the ACC/Big East/Big XII. I couldn't imagine say Alabama bailing on the SEC for a Big XII expansion.

[JL21]

I don't know why we are dogging the ACC in football. Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech. Some down seasons lately, but there's some strong football programs there. Their football is easily on par with Big Ten b-ball. If not for Kansas, the Big 12 is no great shakes in b-ball.

Schools in the Big 12 that have been in the Elite Eight in the last 10 years: Iowa St., Mizzou, Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas St., Baylor, Oklahoma St.

Of the rest, Texas Tech and Texas A&M have been to the Sweet 16. Basically, everyone but Colorado and Nebraska has had recent hoops success. Obviously it's not the ACC, but nobody really is.

[Popeye_Card]

Sure, they have some Elite 8 appearances. But outside of Kansas, who is a traditional power? Who has a brand in basketball? Nobody, really. It is a football conference who's alright in b-ball, with one consistent power program. The ACC in football is easily on par with the Big 12's b-ball.