Big Ten Expansion

[Popeye_Card]

I have heard no discussion of Vandy either, but it is close to the Big Ten core, and it is south--the direction they kinda hinted at yesterday. Just thought I would list them.

It does add the Nashville market, though it has all of 11 Vandy fans in it.

[lukethedrifter]

I have heard no discussion of Vandy either, but it is close to the Big Ten core, and it is south--the direction they kinda hinted at yesterday. Just thought I would list them.

It does add the Nashville market, though it has all of 11 Vandy fans in it.

I bet Tennessee football (not specifically UT) fans would pay more- not less- attention to Vandy if they were in the Big Ten.


I wonder if Tennessee-Vanderbilt is the most one sided rivalry in college sport?

[PurdueSTL]

To go back to the discussion of ND competing with Big Ten schools for recruits, if ND joined the Big Ten, the days of them getting Californians or other Western states (Clausen and Te'o), Floridians and other great Southern talent (Armando Allen and Golden Tate) or, really, anyone outside the Midwest would essentially be dead. Maybe not right away. But within 10 years or so, they'd be just another Big Ten school.

Right now they're Notre Dame, which carries with it all sorts of connotations, good or bad depending on how you view them. If they join the Big Ten, they'll be Notre Dame, Big Ten school. Look at what happened to Penn State, once a great independent football power. They joined the Big Ten and they are now a regional school. It hasn't worked out that bad for them. But you can't be a national name in a regional conference. No one outside Big Ten country gives a crap about anyone in the Big Ten. Most people give a crap about Notre Dame one way or the other, and that will eventually die if they're in a conference.

I think this may take the gold medal in the Olympic Unsubstantiated Hubris competition....

The ONLY reason Penn State remained the "great independent football power" (as you term them) for as long as they did was because Paterno had been rebuffed for decades by the likes of Pitt, Syracuse, and West Virginia in his efforts to create an eastern football conference.

Hell, even Notre Dame--the "great" independent football power -- lobbied mightily for DECADES to join the Big Ten, and was constantly stiff-armed by Yost at Michigan and others....Purdue made no friends among the Big 10 elites in those years by continuing to schedule nd when they were a pariah.....

Independence was something both Penn State and the Domaz labored for years to AVOID..

What precisely is a "regional" school or a "regional" conference? It's been made abundantly clear by other posters that Big Ten schools always have and always will recruit nationally....even middle-of-the-pack programs like Purdue regularly pull in kids from all over the country.

If this level of fundamental cluelessness about college football is representative of the entire nd fanbase, the Big Ten is infinitely better off without the domaz...

[ndistops]

ND hasn't played Air Force in 3 years, their schedule last year was ranked 32nd in the country at the end of the season, and this is where I exit the debate because as usual when the topic is ND words like "clueless" and "hubris" are tossed around and respectful discussion is impossible.

[vinsanity]

ND hasn't played Air Force in 3 years, their schedule last year was ranked 32nd in the country at the end of the season, and this is where I exit the debate because as usual when the topic is ND words like "clueless" and "hubris" are tossed around and respectful discussion is impossible.

I'm a Notre Dame fan as well, but being a Purdue fan and grad make me see why ND should join the Big Ten. It obviously is good for the Big Ten or they wouldn't ask. But the only thing I hear against it is the tradition of being independent. Since they already compete in the big east for most non football sports, football is the only one they are independent in. Joining a conference is much bigger than football, and I think the Big Ten offers more outside football to ND than the Big East.

The schedule wouldn't have to drastically change, depending on the divisions, and most if not all of the classic rivalries are preserved.

Is the only reason for ND to not join them because then they wouldn't be independent? If so, I think you over-value indepedence-there are plenty of great, national college
programs with conference affilitations-but I wouldn't say it's clueless.

[Radio_Bugtussle]

ND hasn't played Air Force in 3 years, their schedule last year was ranked 32nd in the country at the end of the season, and this is where I exit the debate because as usual when the topic is ND words like "clueless" and "hubris" are tossed around and respectful discussion is impossible.

And you cannot defend the fact that ND football simply isn't very good anymore...

[vinsanity]

ND hasn't played Air Force in 3 years, their schedule last year was ranked 32nd in the country at the end of the season, and this is where I exit the debate because as usual when the topic is ND words like "clueless" and "hubris" are tossed around and respectful discussion is impossible.

And you cannot defend the fact that ND football simply isn't very good anymore...

Yes, you clearly think Notre Dame isn't a perennial BCS contender any more.

But there's a lot of teams who would kill for the success they have had in the last few years. In the last 5 years, they were one play from a National Championship game, have been invited to a bowl game 5 of the last 6 years and two were BCS games.
I'm not sure who you're football allegiance is too, but I'm sure Mizzou would be ecstatic to make a BCS game. And they are 2-2 in their last 4 bowl appearances, and getting smoked by Navy and neading OT to beat Northwestern isn't exactly something to brag about.

I'm really not sure what you consider 'very good', but with Notre Dame hiring Brian Kelley and just the fact the Blue and Gold do seem to recruit talent fairly well is something to be excited about. I'm not sure why you gotta rag on Irish football so much.

[Radio_Bugtussle]

I'm really not sure what you consider 'very good', but with Notre Dame hiring Brian Kelley and just the fact the Blue and Gold do seem to recruit talent fairly well is something to be excited about. I'm not sure why you gotta rag on Irish football so much.

Look at the W-L record in recent years. Note all the hype about the incoming recruiting classes. Those two items don't begin to match.

Those records on that schedule are nothing to get excited about.

With the exceptions of Ara P. and Holtz, the coaching hires in recent decades start at mediocre and go down from there. No faith here in the ND administration getting a FB coaching hire right.

That being said, I'll reserve any judgment on the new HFC for a couple years.

[vinsanity]

I'm really not sure what you consider 'very good', but with Notre Dame hiring Brian Kelley and just the fact the Blue and Gold do seem to recruit talent fairly well is something to be excited about. I'm not sure why you gotta rag on Irish football so much.

Look at the W-L record in recent years. Note all the hype about the incoming recruiting classes. Those two items don't begin to match.

Weis was 35-27, with two BCS games, but had a horrendous 2007. They averaged 7 wins a season under Weis. If you had read the articles, you'd see that often times a recruit has a star added to his name just because ND is recruiting them. Do their recruits get over-blown? Probably....but can you please define what you mean by not very good? That they haven't lived up to the height?

Those records on that schedule are nothing to get excited about.

Sure they have some teams who aren't exactly powerhouses, but it has more to do with historic rivalries than just scheduling cupcakes. They had two good showings against Top 10 teams last year, losing by a TD to USC and 5 to Pitt, they lost by 2 to a Navy team that smoked Mizzou. They consistently play top 10 talent, so I'm not sure what your point is.

With the exceptions of Ara P. and Holtz, the coaching hires in recent decades start at mediocre and go down from there. No faith here in the ND administration getting a FB coaching hire right.

That being said, I'll reserve any judgment on the new HFC for a couple years.

I totally disagree. They started at bad and got better. Davies was an idiot, Willingham was a little better and Weis better still. I like Kelley the best because he's had success at the college level, at a non-powerhouse school in a decent conference. So I would hope you would reserve judgement on a coach until after his team plays some games! And whether or not you have 'faith' in the ND Administrators is really inconsequential because you're not a booster, alum, student or fan.

But this thread isn't about whether or not Notre Dame football is good or bad, it's about Big Ten expansion. I've stated my position that they and Mizzou would be well served joining the conference, if you have something you'd like to say that I'd love to hear it. If you're just gonna insult and belittle a football team because you don't like them, I'd rather not.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

ND hasn't played Air Force in 3 years, their schedule last year was ranked 32nd in the country at the end of the season, and this is where I exit the debate because as usual when the topic is ND words like "clueless" and "hubris" are tossed around and respectful discussion is impossible.

Again, the point is in being pro-active. Notre Dame is fine to stay independent in this landscape, but if you think Big 10 expansion is going to lead to consolidation and a longer conference season, it could be very hard to remain relevant as an independent.