World Cup 2010

[TimeForGuinness]

I love thrill's deep dive into soccer for the World Cup.

Anyone in St. Louis interested in watching some of the games at Amsterdam Pub?

[jeffbgoofy]

i'll take the blonde on the far end....

They are all the same woman I guess.

no, that was that other one...these are different

[lukethedrifter]

I love thrill's deep dive into soccer for the World Cup.

Anyone in St. Louis interested in watching some of the games at Amsterdam Pub?

That place is gonna be crazy. They should rent a bigger joint for the Copa.

[thrill]

Oh man I love it when people ask me to post about soccer.

I don't know that you're going to get an essay from me right now but I'll certainly start linking to stuff and posting about stuff as it happens as I do at another board.

Edit - I'm about 20 minutes into this things, and yes, it is going to be an essay. Essentially a primer.

Quick tournament rundown: 32 teams. You qualify through a regional tournament. The regions are UEFA (Europe), CONMEBOL (South America), CAF (Africa), CONCACAF (North America) and AFC (Asia). The first stage of the tournament is the group stage. 8 groups of 4, the top 2 in each group qualify. After that it's a straight forward knockout tournament.

Africa - The Hosts
I'll go in depth on the Africans because I can't overstate how culturally significant this event is for the whole continent. It is one of, if not the biggest, story of the tourney. South Africa are the hosts, but this is a monumentally huge deal for the entire continent of Africa. They're taking huge pride and ownership in the event so I have a feeling we are going to see some really cool fan flavor and exuberance from the African nations. The problem with that is that while off the field they are going to bring something special, they are going to have some issues on the field. While Africa is easily the third best footballing continent behind Europe and South America, they've run into some bad road leading in to this event that they've all been looking forward to for about 8 years now.

Ivory Coast is probably their best team on paper, but they've for some reason fired their manager a month or so ago and hired Sven Goren Ericcson. Sven is a formerly great club manager with Lazio in Rome and Benfica in Lisbon, but earlier this decade he became the manager of the English National team. That job is one of the weirdest in sports because of the way England always overrates it's team and then turns on it when it doesn't meet their expectations, the HUGE amount of interest/scrutiny it gets for both at home and abroad in all of Her Majesty's former empire. The Three Lions are huge in places like India, Canada and even the US. Anyway, since Sven was fired after a hugely disappointing 2006 World Cup in Germany, he's lost his mojo. He managed Manchester City in the English Premier League and did ok. When a multi-billionaire royal Saudi family bought the team, they decided they wanted someone else so Sven went to Mexico where he was an absolute joke. Total debacle. Mexico was in danger of not qualifying for the World Cup for the first time, maybe ever so they fired Sven. After that they immediately turned it around ended up second to our guys in the North American qualifying tournament. When the Ivory Coast fired the guy that took them through qualifying and hired Sven, it smacked of someone looking for style over substance opting for the big name. I'm not sure how Sven will do with the little time he has to prepare. What they have going for them is a loaded roster featuring superstars like Chelsea's Didier Drogba and Salomon Kalou. What they have against them is the most difficult qualifying group. They got put in a group with Brazil (the best team in the world), Portugal (chronic underachievers, over reliant on the second best player in the world, Christiano Ronaldo but at the same time super talented and a definite threat to the Ivory Coast) and North Korea (the worst team in the tournament). It will be a challenge to get that second place slot. They are very even talent-wise with Portugal.

Ghana is the second best team. What they have going for them is Michael Essien. A midfielder who can do it all, is a great leader and organizes the team formation incredibly well. Lots of other talented guys on the squad. What they have against them is they are in a group with 1 very good team, and 2 good teams who are potentially as talented as them. (Germany; Australia and Serbia respectively) as well as Essien being injured for much of Chelsea's season. He's back now, but who knows what kind of rust he developed. They are thin at forward and will struggle to score. I don't see them advancing.

Nigeria is talented. Lots of good players on good teams in Europe but without a true superstar. Should finish second in their group with Argentina.

Algeria, Cameroon and South Africa won't advance. South Africa will be the first host nation to not make it out of the group stage.

That covers Africa and from now on I'll just break it down by group.

Group A

France, Uruguay, Mexico and South Africa.
Weird Group. France is a world power to be sure, but they've got a terrible coach, no leadership on the field after the retirement of Zidane and all kinds of weird scandals happening on the home front including an underage prostitution scandal involving their best player, Franck Ribery. South Africa is mediocre and wouldn't have qualified for the tourney if not for the automatic berth given to the hosts. Mexico is talented and enigmatic. Always seem to underachieve leading up the major tournaments and then like clock work make it out of the group despite being undisciplined morons most of the time. Are quickly dispatched in the sweet 16 typically. Uruguay is a tiny population with a wonderfully rich tradition in soccer. Essentially single handedly transformed the sport from brutish, no-talent white dudes beating each other up on muddy fields and occasionally kicking a ball into the beautiful game. Introduced grace, flair and joy in the 1924 and 1928 olympics and the first World Cup (which they hosted and won) in 1930. Since then the world caught up and left them in the dust, but they still have some wonderful players like the goal scorers Diego Forlan (Atletico Madrid) and Luis Suarez (Ajax Amsterdam). They are a threat to advance.

Picks in order of finish w/key players:
(Top 2 advance)

France - Yoann Gourcuff (midfielder, Bordeaux), Franck Ribery (midfielder, Bayern Munich), Thierry Henry (forward, New York Red Bulls and scourge of Irish people everywhere), Nicholas Anelka (forward, Chelsea), Patrice Evra (defender, Manchester United) and more. As you can see, they have some serious players, but their Coach, Raymond Domanech is a dumbass and they are an old roster. Still have enough to get it done.

Mexico - Guillermo Ochao (Goalkeeper, Club America), Rafa Marquez (defender, Barcelona), Carlos Salcido (defender, PSV Eindhoven), Johnny Magallon (defender, AZ Alkmaar/my existence's bane), Cuahtemoc Blanco (midfielder/forward Veracruz), Javier Hernandez (forward, Manchester United) and Carlos Vela (forward, Arsenal).

Uruguay - Diego Forlan (Forward, Atletico Madrid), Luis Suarez (Forward, Ajax), Diego Lugano (defender, Fenerbache).

South Africa - Stephen Booth (defender, some club in South Africa), Aaron Makoena (defender, Portsmouth), Benny McCarthy (forward, West Ham United), Stephen Pienaar (midfielder, Everton).

Group B
Argentina, Nigeria, Greece and South Korea
Argentina are immensely talented. They have the best player in the world, Lionel Messi (see sig) on their team and a host of weapons to support him. If not for their temperamental lunatic of a manager (this should ring a bell or you should not be reading this thread because you have no interest in the sport), one Diego Armando Maradona, I'd pick them to go all the way. Unfortunately for them, he is. He's left a bunch of talent home for this one in place for what he thinks is their most cohesive team. We'll see. Nigeria we've covered. Greece has not a lot of talent, but they are always well organized in defense. South Korea same thing but with the added strength of being in incredible shape. Those dudes can run all day.

Argentina - Lionel Messi (forward, Barcelona), Angel DiMaria (midfielder, Benfica), Juan Sebastian Veron (midfielder, Estudianted de la Plata), Gonzalo Higuain (forward, Real Madrid), Martin DiMichelis (d, Bayern Munich), Gabriel Heinze (d, Marseilles), Walter Samuel (d, Inter Milan), Javier Mascherano (m, Liverpool), Carlos Tevez (f, Manchester City) and Sergio Aguero (f, Atletico Madrid).

Nigeria - Jon Obi Mikel (m, Chelsea), Yakubu (f, Everton), Obafemi Martins (f, Wolfsburg) and Joseph Yobo (d, Everton).

South Korea - Park Ji Sung (m/f, Manchester United).

Greece - Georgios Samaras (f, Celtic) and some other ok dudes.

Group C AKA THE BEST GROUP USA! USA! USA! USA!

England, USA, Slovenia and Algeria.
England are always overrated by their own fans. Yet at the same time underrated. It's a weird, tortured relationship. They invented the game, but have only won one world cup and that was in 1966. They are essentially the Toronto Maple Leafs of international soccer. Since I just used an analogy from a sport nobody cares about to explain another sport nobody cares about, I'll elaborate. Wildly popular/profitable. Has huge famous names, but the results don't justify the hype. This could be the year they change that though. They are talented, though not moreso than usual on the whole. The difference? Fabio Capello and Wayne Rooney. Fabio Capollo is their manager and the italian mastermind brings with him not just an incredible resume from the club game with AC Milan, Real Madrid and others but the results to prove it since taking over. England has gone from not qualifying for the European Championships two years ago to kicking ass and taking names. Wayne Rooney is England's Freddy Adu. You remember that guy. 13 year old who signed with DC United and was supposed to be a superstar? Well he's not. But Wayne is. Signed with Everton at age 16 and became a force immediately. Now plays for Man United and at age (i believe) 24 is in his prime and living up to the hype. Has taken the reins at United after Christiano Ronaldo split to Real Madrid and backed it up by scoring 34 goals in 44 appearances for United. Is England too reliant on Rooney? Possibly, but with support stars like Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard and co, they will be a force. They are suspect in goal and struggle to find the best partner for Rooney up top, but let's not nitpick. They are good. Algeria are not be taken lightly from a US perspective, but there's really not much going on there. Especially defensively. Slovenia the same. I will go into super depth about the US at the end.

England - Wayne Rooney (f, Manchester United), Frank Lampard (m, Chelsea), Steven Gerrard (m, Liverpool), John Terry (d, Chelsea), Rio Ferdinand (d, Man U), Ashley Cole (d, Chelsea).

US - Landon Donovan (m, LA Galaxy), Clint Dempsey (m/f, Fulham), Tim Howard (Goalkeeper, Everton), Carlos Bocanegra (d, Rennes), Oguchi Onyewu (d, AC Milan), Jozy Altidore (f, Villarreal), Michael Bradley (m, Borussia Monchengladbach), Stuart Holden (m, Bolton Wanderers), Ricardo Clark (m, Frankfurt).

Slovenia - A bunch of ok, experienced dudes who's names are hard to spell and harder to pronounce.

Algeria - Karim Ziani (m, Wolfsburg), Madjid Bougherra (d, Rangers), the rest see: Slovenia.

Group D
Germany, Ghana, Australia and Serbia.
Very competitive group. Germany will advance because thay are the most talented and are machines in world tournaments. Always overachieve. Unfortunately for them, their captain Michael Ballack was injured in the last game of the season for Chelsea in a really reckless tackle. They've got other problems. Their top choice goalkeeper, Rene Adler, was also injured while one of their potential backups, Robert Enke, committed suicide earlier this year. They are a little green in places and too old in others. Their coach is too stubborn to call in some old vets he's had run in's with like Torsten Frings (the most natural replacement for Ballack) or Kevin Kuranyi (an experienced, hot goal scorer). All these things look bad, but it's Germany. If one team can put their troubles behind them and become ruthlessly organized and maximize their talent, it's ze Germans. After that, it's a crapshoot between some good teams in Australia, Ghana and Serbia. Ghana I've gone over in the Africa section above. Serbia is really talented and has cobbled together a good team in the rubble of the Yugoslavia split. Australia have some good talent and experience, but seem just a little too thin to advance.

Germany - Bastian Scweinsteiger (m, Bayern Munich), Mesut Ozil (m, Werder Bremen), Mario Gomez (f, Bayern Munich), Thomas Muller (m/f, Bayern Munich), Lukas Podolski (f, Cologne), Toni Kroos (m, Bayer Leverkusen), Philip Lahm (d, Bayern Munich).

Serbia - Nemanja Vidić (d, Manchester United), Branislav Ivanovic (d, Chelsea), Dejan Stankovic (m, Inter Milan), Zdravko Kuzmanović (m, Stuttgart) and Milan Jovanović (m, Liverpool).

Australia - Tim Cahill, (m/f, Everton), Mark Schwarzer (g, Fulham), Lucas Niell (d, Galatasaray), Harry Kewell (f, Galatasaray).

Ghana - Michael Essien (m, Chelsea), Sully Muntari (m, Inter Milan), John Mensah (d, Sunderland).

Thus ends part 1 of three. I'm going to lunch. I will continue with the second half of the group break downs as well as the special section for the US squad this afternoon.

[StL Dan]

WC time is the only time I'll pay attn to US Soccer.

Seems like their last two teams were projected to make some serious noise in the tournament......but ended up looking lame as usual. Should I expect more of the same this summer?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

WC time is the only time I'll pay attn to US Soccer.

Seems like their last two teams were projected to make some serious noise in the tournament......but ended up looking lame as usual. Should I expect more of the same this summer?

The 2002 team vastly exceeded expectations and made it to the quarterfinals.

The 2006 team underperformed, but it was also in a group of death and it wasn't projected to make "serious noise" by anyone outside the media members who follow soccer for 1 month every 4 years.

This year's team is expected to advance, and has shown that they are capable of staying with anyone for 90 minutes. Smart money is on the US making the knockout round and losing to Germany in the round of 16. The good and bad thing is that if the US advances, they're probably going to face a squad of similar quality because Group D is so deep. Good in that they don't have to feel pressure to win the group, bad because they can't really play their way into an easier opponent in the knockout round.

[thrill]

Group E
Netherlands, Denmark, Japan and Cameroon.

The Dutch are in my opinion the 4th most talented team in the world behind Brazil, Spain and Argentina. For some reason they never put it together except for a brief period in the 80's when they won the Euros with players like Ruud Gullit, Marco Van Basten and Frank Rikkaard. Notorious for looking unstoppable early and then collapsing in the money rounds due to choking and/or in fighting among the squad. Lot of egos that are hard to get to mesh I guess. They are loaded as ever with superstar midfielders Arjen Robben, Wesley Schneider, Rafael Van Der Vaart and striker Robin Van Persie. Denmark have some talent but are kind of a bland, steady team that if they advance, probably won't do much beyond that. Japan are known for their organization defensively and great fitness. Cameroon have some stars like Samuel Eto, but don't have a ton of depth and aren't very organized. Should be a fun group though, the Dutch are always great to watch with their dynamic, attacking style, cool orange unis and rabid drunk unparalleled traveling fan base. The other three are pretty evenly matched so it will be competitive.

Netherlands - Wesley Schneider (m, Inter Milan), Arjen Robben (m, Bayern Munich), Rafael Van Der Vaart (M, Real Madrid), Johnny Heitinga (d, Everton), Dirk Kuyt (f, Liverpool), Robin Van Persie (f, Arsenal), Giovanni van Bronckhorst (d, Feyenoord), Mark Van Bommel (m, Bayern Munich), Nigel Di Jong (m, Manchester City), Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (f, AC Milan).

Denmark - Niklas Bendtner (f, Arsenal), Christian Poulsen (m, Juventus), Daniel Agger (d, Liverpool).

Cameroon - Samuel Eto (f, Inter Milan), Seidou Keita (m, Barcelona), Jean Makoun (m, Lyon), Alex Song (m, Arsenal).

Japan - Bunch of guys who play in Japan who I've never heard of.

Group F
Italy, Paraguay, Slovakia and New Zealand.
Italy lucked out with this group. They're aging and have chemistry questions going in. Marcelo Lippe was brought back (won it with them in '06) as manager and he has relied on old war horses that he won with last time. Problem with that is they were on the tail end of their primes then. Players like Francesco Totti, Fabio Cannavarro, Andrea Pirlo, Gennaro Gattuso, Gianluca Zambrotta and Antonio DiNatale not only have awesome names that are fun to say, but they are also on the wrong side of 30. Some decidedly so. Still, they are the Italians. They have unparalleled defensive organization. They have smart, talented and incredibly experienced stars like the aforementioned old warriors, they know how to cheat to win, they are masters of the flop/dive/swear filled pleas to the referee for favor. They are not to be taken lightly. They have the traitor, New Jersey's own Giuseppi Rossi (not one of their talismans by any stretch but I just wanted to bus toss him because that's what a US fan is honor bound to do at any chance presented). They could certainly do well. Paraguay and Slovakia will fight it out for second while New Zealand will just be happy to be there. Paraguay has a potent strike force with aging, occasional-star Roque Santa Cruz and the Argentinian born to a Paraguayan mother, Lucas Barrios. Slovenian Marek Hamsik is an absolute stud.

Italy - Giunluigi Buffon (g, Juventus), Daniele De Rossi (m, Roma), Francesco Totti (f, Roma), Fabio Cannavarro (d, Juventus), Andrea Pirlo (m, AC Milan), Gennaro Gattuso (m, AC Milan), Gianluca Zambrotta (d, AC Milan), Luca Toni (f, Roma) and Antonio DiNatale (f, Udinese).

Paraguay - Lucas Barrios (f, Borussia Dortmund), Roque Santa Cruz (f, Manchester City), Paulo da Silva (d, Sunderland).

Slovakia - Marek Hamšík (m, Napoli), Martin Škrtel (d, Liverpool).

New Zealand - Ryan Nelsen (d, Blackburn Rovers).

Group G
Brazil, Portugal, Ivory Coast and North Korea.

Brazil are loaded with players who combine skill, strength, grace, speed and power like no other country. Period. The favorites for a reason. Well coached, deep, talented and experienced this team won last summer's Confederations Cup, finished first in South American qualifying and won the Copa America (South America's regional championship) in 2007. They've won the most of these things and they'll probably add one more to the trophy case. Portugal are talented but way too reliant on Christiano Ronaldo. They are also light on pure forwards and defenders. Not good places to be light if you want to contend. Ivory Coast I went into depth above. North Korea, simply put are the worst team here. Their government's "eccentricities" certainly extend into football. Their players don't play outside of their country, their games are shown on tape delay so they can edit out all the opponents goals, etc. In North Korea, they'll celebrate a World Cup championship. Everywhere else, they'll be the worst team at the tournament.

Brazil - Julio Caesar (g, Inter Milan), Lucio (d, Inter Milan), Kaka (m, Real Madrid), Luis Fabiano (f, Sevilla), Felipe Melo (m, Juventus), Maicon (d, Inter Milan), Dani Alves (d, Barcelona), Robinho (f, Santos), Grafite (f, Wolfsburg), Thiago Silva (d, Milan). In reality I could list their entire squad.

Portugal - Christiano Ronaldo (m/f, Real Madrid), Nani (m, Manchester United), Paolo Ferreira (d, Chelsea), Ricardo Carvalho (d, Chelsea), Simao (f, Atletico Madrid).

Ivory Coast - Didier Drogba (f, Chelsea), Salomon Kalou (f, Chelsea), Yaya Toure (m, Barcelona), Klo Toure (d, Manchester City), Emmanuel Eboué (d, Arsenal), Didier Zakora (m, Sevilla).

North Korea - Some Korean guys.

Group H

Spain, Switzerland, Chile and Honduras

If it isn't Brazil, then it's Spain. They are absolutely loaded. Their players have incredible experience at the absolute pinnacles of both club and international play. Their stars are all at the height of their powers age and skill wise and the spine of their team (gk, central defense, central midfield and strikers) is the best in the world. Chile blazed through South American qualifying surprising many and playing an awesomely entertaining attacking style. This World Cup has several high altitude venues and the Chileans are comfortable with that. They have some great, unheralded up and coming talent and are well coached. Switzerland is bland. Honduras is just thrilled to be there, barely edging out Costa Rica after US defender Jonathan Bornstein headed home a corner in extra time against Costa Rica in Washington DC on the final night of qualifying. On paper, this is the most straight forward group with Spain and Chile qualifying easily.

Spain - Fernando Torres (f, Liverpool), David Villa (f, Barcelona), Xavi Hernandez (m, Barcelona), Andres Iniesta (m, Barcelona), Carles Puyol (d, Barcelona), Iker Casillas (g, Real Madrid), Sergio Ramos (d, Real Madrid), David Silva (m, Valencia), Xabi Alonso (m, Real Madrid), Cesc Fabregas (m, Arsenal), Gerard Pique (d, Barcelona), really I could name the rest of their roster and it'd be all stars.

Chile - Alexis Sanchez (f, Udinese), other Chileans who I don't know anything about now but will in the next few years I'm guessing.

Switzerland - Blaise Nkufo (f, Seattle Sounders), Philippe Senderos (d, Everton), Diego Benaglio (g, Wolfsburg), Alexander Frei (f, FC Basel).

Honduras - Wilson Palacios (m, Tottenham), Amado Guevara (m, Motagua), David Suazo (f, Genoa), Roger Espinoza (m, Kansas City Wizards), Julio Cesar de Leon (m, Torino).


The Favorites: Brazil, Spain.

The Contenders: Germany, Italy, Argentina, England, Netherlands.

Best of the Rest: France, US, Mexico, Chile, Ivory Coast, Serbia, Nigeria, Cameroon, Ghana, Portugal, Uruguay.

Happy to be there: Everyone else.

[TimeForGuinness]

thrill has delivered

[lukethedrifter]

Isn't Slovenia a team I'm supposed to hate?

[Freed Roger]

Thrill - how did North Korea get invited -did they win the Third World Dictatorship Cup or something?