Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

[Fat Strat]

Concerning Bay... He might be a liability in the OF, but if the market for Holliday is as depressed as it seems ($16M - $18M when it should be around $22M), then it's highly possible that Bay might come quite a bit cheaper than originally anticipated. Bay at $13M is a discount that wouldn't prohibit us from making some other improvements. No one's bidding on these guys, and now Bay's agent is crawling back to Theo hoping to resurrect a deal that's been dead for a month.

I'm not suggesting that we should sign him instead of Holliday. Rather, if Boras doesn't budge from his demands or eventually cave to Mo and the Cards, going with Bay might allow us to solidify the outfield while there are still other options on the market. Time is running short. After the first of the year the other plan B players will start coming off the table.

[haltz]

wRC+ on fangraphs is park adjusted and includes stolen bases.

Over the last two years Schumaker is at about 109 and Ellsbury is ~108. Hopefully we can trade Skip for Adrian Gonzalez immediately.

[Swingingbunt]

The Cubs and Giants have to shed some Soriano and Zito money before they can go back to that stratosphere.

The Giants have plenty to spend, and not all of it is going to go to Lincecum, Cain and Sandoval. The Giants, as much as any team, should be pursuing Holliday. The Braves should be, too.

The Giants probably worry me more, concerning Holliday, than anyone. NL West, California team, money to spend, need for a hitter, etc., etc. If the market is really depressed as it seems to be, they could easily get back into the mix.

[Bo Hart]

Over the last two years Schumaker is at about 109 and Ellsbury is ~108. Hopefully we can trade Skip for Adrian Gonzalez immediately.

Completely agree.

As an added bonus, Gonzalez play second base. I mean, if his brother was able to, there's no reason he can't. After all, the ability to play a position has nothing to do with body size or athleticism - it's all hereditary.

[Eephus Speed]

$13M for a 3-win player would be acceptable. The problem is that Bay's going to get 4-5 years...by the end of his contract, he might be the replacement-level player that he was in 2007.

If Byrd or K. Johnson or DeRosa or Damon can be had for a lot less, or a trade can be made for someone such as DeJesus, why even consider signing Bay? I realize, of course, that numerous teams are considering giving Bay 4-5 years and as much as $60M. I'd rather roll the dice with Craig, Jay et. al (at least until June/July) than invest $50+M in Jason Bay.

[Hungary Jack]

Signing Jason Bay to a 5 year deal would be tantamount to booking a round-the-world cruise with the Flat Earth Society.

[jim]

Don't you have to at least create the illusion of supply? Isn't that going to help the situation with Holliday? I'd much rather have Holliday, but it just strikes me as self defeating to only deal with him. I hate putting all of our off season eggs in one basket.

[fanforever]

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston ... le-holley/


It’s the same way with Matt Holliday. Scott Boras is brilliant. But I’m not sure Matt Holliday has anything comparable to the five [years] times 16.5 [million] that the Red Sox offered him at the winter meetings. I don’t think he’s going to get a Mark Teixeira contract.

Were you surprised that the Sox moved so quickly to sign Mike Cameron, with Bay and Holliday still out there?

I think they basically had spent five months with Jason Bay and Joe Urbon and just said, ‘Okay, you’re not going to move? It’s been five months. We’re going to move on.’ The night before they did Cameron, they went to Boras, they had the five times 16.5, and he said it had to be a Mark Teixeira contract, so they moved on.

I know that defense has been the focus of this offseason. If you go to Baseball Prospectus and believe those defensive [efficiency] ratings, they were the second worst defensive team in baseball. Watching them, I would say that they were. However they configure the outfield, it’s going to be very good. I know they’d like to find one more right-handed hitting outfielder. And the left side of the infield will theoretically be better. It will be very interesting to see.

[Maclowery]

With almost every media outlet and blog I see saying that the Yankees and Red Sox are both too close to budget to sign a big name, and very few rumors about outlier teams going after Holliday, I almost am wishing we'd get him for even fewer years now. Is there something on Boras' table that is making him wait? A secret note from the Braves or Giants saying that if he waits till January, they'll give 6 years or something?

I just don't get it. Seems like every day, Holliday's potential contract is getting lower, not higher.

[cpebbles]

We heard the same things about the Yankees not being interested in Teixeira right up until about 24 hours before they nabbed him. And, to a lesser degree, the Red Sox with Daisuke. The volume of protestations makes me believe we're just hearing a lot of misinformation.

If the Yankees and Red Sox didn't want Holliday, they'd probably be feeding the media lines about the offer they've got in to him. It makes Boras happy, doesn't hurt them, and might conceivably drive up the price that a competitor signs him for.