Civil Rights Up for Vote

[JCShutout]

Sorry guys, busy today at work. AD, I left it vague on purpose, partially because I think it applies both in personal and macro ways, and partially because I'm not sure. I didn't really have a point to argue for when I brought this up. This is seriously just a thought experiment for me, and I decided to ponder/post aloud.

Just to be clear, I didn't mean my comment at criticism. I was intrigued and hoped you'd expand. I understand better now.

With regard to theism, I don't think you'll find to many atheists who feel that everything is chance or that there is no meaning in the universe. Much more common is the belief that meaning is something people give to the universe and not the other way around. And that is enough.

Oh no, I didn't feel attacked or anything, I'm just very tired and freaking out over finishing my MA (exams in 8 days and I'm not ready!), and while I enjoy these types of thought explorations, after answering GK's post (I answered his first and then typed my response to you), I just don't quite have the energy right now to go too in depth (I'm seriously freking out over my exams next week, like I have to do deep breathing 4 or 5 times a day to calm myself down). I'm also trying to not wander too far into relativism as I explore this using a fairly post-modern lens.

And I really should not have corraled all atheists with those who see no meaning in the world. I was just being lazy and that was unfair. Truth and discovery are a strong aspect of many forms of secular humanism (and perhaps, other secular movements I'm less aware of). I should have rephrased that to identify myself as one who sees meaning, vs. those who don't, and not limit that to Theist v. Atheist.

I explored the personal in my response to GK a little bit with some examples from my experiences with my Dad and myself that I think transcend the macro and micro, an exclusionist understanding of the world which glorifies MY people/culture/religion/ethnicity/socio-economic group/gender (etc etc) over others without serious research/attempt to dialogue with/understand the other. I think that's evident in us as a species, and in our personal lives.

Sorry, was going to try and expand more, but my brain is fried... and now I need to start studying for the night, lol, irony. Cheers!

[G. Keenan]

I explored the personal in my response to GK a little bit with some examples from my experiences with my Dad and myself that I think transcend the macro and micro, an exclusionist understanding of the world which glorifies MY people/culture/religion/ethnicity/socio-economic group/gender (etc etc) over others without serious research/attempt to dialogue with/understand the other. I think that's evident in us as a species, and in our personal lives.

I think we probably are really in agreement. There are certainly many people the world over like your dad. I'm sure I have many of the same blinders and biases so pervasive in my own understanding of the world that I can't even see them let alone see the way they shape my thinking. My claim is that in spite of all that, in spite of the many people who have zero interest in interrogating their own ideas, the world changes for the better. It trends towards less prejudice, less war, less hunger, less ignorance. People sticking their head in the sand like ostriches are going to find that harder and harder. Or at least they will find it harder and harder to impart that attitude to their children. People have indeed changed their fundamental understanding of the world over time, profoundly.

As my grandmother used to say, "things change, people change."

[Arthur Dent]

less war

I don't know about this one. Really, I'm not sure there is any grand force driving history for the betterment of mankind. The world is pretty much what we chose to make it to be.

[Radbird]

I will never again watch Olbermann without seeing Ben Affleck channel him and quietly chuckling, but I thought tonight's "special comment" about Prop 8 was worth sharing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27650743/

[JCShutout]

I explored the personal in my response to GK a little bit with some examples from my experiences with my Dad and myself that I think transcend the macro and micro, an exclusionist understanding of the world which glorifies MY people/culture/religion/ethnicity/socio-economic group/gender (etc etc) over others without serious research/attempt to dialogue with/understand the other. I think that's evident in us as a species, and in our personal lives.

I think we probably are really in agreement. There are certainly many people the world over like your dad. I'm sure I have many of the same blinders and biases so pervasive in my own understanding of the world that I can't even see them let alone see the way they shape my thinking. My claim is that in spite of all that, in spite of the many people who have zero interest in interrogating their own ideas, the world changes for the better. It trends towards less prejudice, less war, less hunger, less ignorance. People sticking their head in the sand like ostriches are going to find that harder and harder. Or at least they will find it harder and harder to impart that attitude to their children. People have indeed changed their fundamental understanding of the world over time, profoundly.

As my grandmother used to say, "things change, people change."

I don't know. I'd like that to be the case, but the disparity between the rich and poor is wider. You could say we have less war because we have a significantly better chance of killing everyone. Also, even this country still trains population control groups to hold our economic policies in place in our spheres of influence. Normal wars just aren't the way we do it now, but we still fight.

2.8-3.5 billion people (depending on if you think $1, $2, or $3/day represents extreeme poverty) are malnourished, and the amount of money people in this country spend on weight-loss products each year could pay to feed everyone for a year. Hell, we HAVE the technology to feed everyone, and half the world goes hungry.

Read Savage Inequalities for a glance at education disparity in this country.

We have a long way to go. I think technology has given us the opportunity to do more good and more harm, but I think the people behind the technology are generally the same... but like I said, its something to explore. I know there is an area of history that theorizes whether things are really getting better, trying to take into account as many factors as possible, but I haven't studied that much. It looks interesting though. Another thing to put on the "to do list" perhaps.

[robbotis]

I voted for Civil Rights. Bob Barr got my vote. He's pro-choice everything.

[JL21]

I will never again watch Olbermann without seeing Ben Affleck channel him and quietly chuckling, but I thought tonight's "special comment" about Prop 8 was worth sharing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27650743/

He was very moved. And it was a little hokey, too, but he admitted it. I was mostly impressed by how much passion he expressed there.

[JCShutout]

Hey, for those who want to show support, Saturday there will be a rally downtown at the old courthouse (Broadway and Market) (and similar rallies all over the country) to protest and speak out against Proposition 8 and all of the other pro-equality losses in the recent election.

[Arthur Dent]

Hey, for those who want to show support, Saturday there will be a rally downtown at the old courthouse (Broadway and Market) (and similar rallies all over the country) to protest and speak out against Proposition 8 and all of the other pro-equality losses in the recent election.

I will try to go to the local version of this. Not sure what good it will do though.

[JCShutout]

Hey, for those who want to show support, Saturday there will be a rally downtown at the old courthouse (Broadway and Market) (and similar rallies all over the country) to protest and speak out against Proposition 8 and all of the other pro-equality losses in the recent election.

I will try to go to the local version of this. Not sure what good it will do though.

Awesome! I'm young and naive enough that I think raising awareness that people care about this issue will create/maintain energy to overturn these types of laws.