Civil Rights Up for Vote

[BW23]

Well I gave the example of interracial marriage because it's an issue where public opinion was quite strongly in the wrong direction at one time in our recent history. Though the Bible does say that Christians should not marry non-Christians. I'm waiting for the Christian fundamentalists to make a stink about inter-faith marriages.

Or maybe we should try to put the issue of slavery or ethnic cleansing up for a public vote for Constitutional amendment and if see if the Bible believers vote to restore the legality of these two practices.

I love this place, especially when I need laughs.

[PujolJunkie]

Well I gave the example of interracial marriage because it's an issue where public opinion was quite strongly in the wrong direction at one time in our recent history. Though the Bible does say that Christians should not marry non-Christians. I'm waiting for the Christian fundamentalists to make a stink about inter-faith marriages.

Or maybe we should try to put the issue of slavery or ethnic cleansing up for a public vote for Constitutional amendment and if see if the Bible believers vote to restore the legality of these two practices.

I love this place, especially when I need laughs.

If interracial relationships were condemned by the Bible, would you be so enthusiastic in supporting it's condemnation?

[BW23]

I don't see any need in playing the "If" game. I simply have to try and study and analyze the Word as it is.

[PujolJunkie]

Your answer pretty much says it all.

[BW23]

Meaning....

[PujolJunkie]

For you to be so non-committal about a question like that is more or less the answer I was expecting. If the Bible including a condemnation of interracial relationships, then race relations would still be the same way they were over 40 years ago due to some commitment to a segregated belief that restricts two people from being together in what is supposed to be "Holy Matrimony" just because they are two different people.

To believe that two people of the same gender can't marry, no matter how much they love each other, simply because the Bible says so, leads me to believe that even if interracial relations were perpetrated as sinful and evil (as they were by many a preacher back in the good ole' days and even now) that you'd be in the voting booth voting against it, as well.

I believe two human beings who are well and able to make their own decisions should have no reason not to be able to be married. I hold that standard because if so many didn't find for that belief years ago, my girlfriend and I wouldn't be allowed to hold hands in public.

[BW23]

For you to be so non-committal about a question like that is more or less the answer I was expecting. If the Bible including a condemnation of interracial relationships, then race relations would still be the same way they were over 40 years ago due to some commitment to a segregated belief that restricts two people from being together in what is supposed to be "Holy Matrimony" just because they are two different people.

How can I be committed to an answer that is so hypothetical? It's ridiculous to consider, really. It's not in the Bible. I study and try to learn from the Bible...not nearly as much as I can, and I ask God to forgive me for that.

To believe that two people of the same gender can't marry, no matter how much they love each other, simply because the Bible says so, leads me to believe that even if interracial relations were perpetrated as sinful and evil (as they were by many a preacher back in the good ole' days and even now) that you'd be in the voting booth voting against it, as well.

I'm sorry that you assume so much of me.

As for preachers in the "good ole' days", I wouldn't have followed in line behind them in that regard. There's no scriptural basis for it.

I believe two human beings who are well and able to make their own decisions should have no reason not to be able to be married. I hold that standard because if so many didn't find for that belief years ago, my girlfriend and I wouldn't be allowed to hold hands in public.

With this you're arguing against societal reasons. That has nothing to do with my decisions in this regard.

[PujolJunkie]

How can I be committed to an answer that is so hypothetical? It's ridiculous to consider, really. It's not in the Bible. I study and try to learn from the Bible...not nearly as much as I can, and I ask God to forgive me for that.

Not so hypothetical. There are countless people who are completely unsure of what the rules behind interracial relationships are who are dedicated to the Christian faith. It takes a simple search or asking around. And if you can't answer "No, I wouldn't support that" to such a deadpan question, then that honestly leads me to question your judgment. Sorry. That shouldn't be a question that requires higher thinking. I don't know how anyone could say that they're unable to make a commitment to that question, no matter how hypothetical. I have no problem following the word of God, but if it was to extend to racial boundaries, I can't see how anybody couldn't distance themselves from that one belief without being a bigot.

I'm sorry that you assume so much of me.

As for preachers in the "good ole' days", I wouldn't have followed in line behind them in that regard. There's no scriptural basis for it.

No? Says who? There are many a line in the Bible that could be construed as a possible condemnation of race relations. Just as there are lines in the Bible that could be associated with characters in the Bible being homosexual. Can you really say that there is no scriptural basis for that? Who can clarify? It's to be determined by personal perception.

With this you're arguing against societal reasons. That has nothing to do with my decisions in this regard.

Homosexual marriage isn't a societal issue? Really?

I'm sorry. I cannot argue against something so widely condemned as gay marriage when the same people who champion the fact that because two people are different, that bars them from having the same rights as those who are perceived as normal when I am in the same exact situation and the only true difference is that my relationship isn't so clearly condemned in the Bible. All it takes is one person's perception to put me in the same position.

And even if you wanted to take it in another direction, my girlfriend is an Agnostic. So does that mean because we are of different creed that we can't marry, either?

[BW23]

Not so hypothetical. There are countless people who are completely unsure of what the rules behind interracial relationships are who are dedicated to the Christian faith. It takes a simple search or asking around. And if you can't answer "No, I wouldn't support that" to such a deadpan question, then that honestly leads me to question your judgment. Sorry. That shouldn't be a question that requires higher thinking. I don't know how anyone could say that they're unable to make a commitment to that question, no matter how hypothetical. I have no problem following the word of God, but if it was to extend to racial boundaries, I can't see how anybody couldn't distance themselves from that one belief without being a bigot.

You're going to question my judgment no matter what I say. That's what you're trying to do in the first place. Am I against racial bigotry? Without a doubt. There's no question I am, and I fight against it a lot. But I don't play hypothetical questions like that with the Bible. I have a problem in doing so with any subject.

No? Says who? There are many a line in the Bible that could be construed as a possible condemnation of race relations. Just as there are lines in the Bible that could be associated with characters in the Bible being homosexual. Can you really say that there is no scriptural basis for that? Who can clarify? It's to be determined by personal perception.

Again, from what I can gather, there is no scriptural basis for being against inter-racial relationships. I would argue that the church I attend is one of the most strict interpreters of the Bible, and we have a number of inter-racial couples in our congregation. Those couples are welcomed as much as anyone else.

Homosexual marriage isn't a societal issue? Really?

You really like to try and pick fights with things I say, don't you?

I never said homosexual marriage wasn't a societal issue, did I? I said that your argument in support was based on societal reasons not Biblical. You said "I hold that standard because if so many didn't find for that belief years ago, my girlfriend and I wouldn't be allowed to hold hands in public." That's what I was referring to.

I'm sorry. I cannot argue against something so widely condemned as gay marriage when the same people who champion the fact that because two people are different, that bars them from having the same rights as those who are perceived as normal when I am in the same exact situation and the only true difference is that my relationship isn't so clearly condemned in the Bible. All it takes is one person's perception to put me in the same position.

That's your right, just as I have the right to believe in what I believe. It's also my right not to follow any one person's perception. I do all I can to refer to scripture.

And even if you wanted to take it in another direction, my girlfriend is an Agnostic. So does that mean because we are of different creed that we can't marry, either?

Nope.

[TimeForGuinness]

BW23 do you believe in evolution or dinosaurs?