Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

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ghostrunner
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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Post by ghostrunner »

lukethedrifter wrote:I'm curious why I have the perception that some our middle of the road independents seem to be looking for a reason to vote McCain. There seems to be a more vigorous defense of Palin and a holding Obama and the Dems to a higher standard of politics. Obviously, I may be wrong about that perception but my current theory is that it's a response to a fairly left/progressive leaning board, sort of a devil's advocate response which I completely understand. My backup theory is that some find it very difficult to vote against the John McCain story.
If this were a Republican leaning board, I'd sound a lot different. But seriously, look how much stuff about Palin has come out and been parroted on this board, and how much has been proven false by now.

I think the Republicans are in a situation where they have to throw some punches if they want to win. I still think the Democrats are doing well, but the way this Palin thing has played out has been to McCain's advantage at every level. The media let a rush of stories through about Palin without adequate checking, and that should have been obvious. If someone's being piled on, I do tend to try and argue for them. My Dad used to do it with me, and it drove me nuts. Though of course I've picked up the habit.

It's not that I hold Obama to a higher standard, I just don't think its his strong suit to sling a lot of mud. He's got people to do that, and they should be doing it about McCain. Palin is a problem for the Democrats but not this time around.

Speaking for myself, I'm always looking for reasons to vote for the other guy.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

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haltz wrote:
ghostrunner wrote:I'd be all for having the discussion and letting the science win.
There's no resolution beyond acknowledging that some people believe it for faith-based reasons. That belongs somewhere besides a science classroom.
Even in a supervised/moderated discussion among students? I disagree.

If the teacher's not comfortable with it, they shouldn't do it. But if they are, let them go at it. Not every class needs to stick to the syllabus. Those kinds of discussions were really the only time I was interested in high school.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

ghostrunner wrote:I don't know. I've never had a class of any sort where philosophical discussions didn't come up. That's a good thing and part of learning. People are too hard core about this, IMO. I'm not saying teach both, but I'd be all for having the discussion and letting the science win.
I hate how the hard-core religous right candidates still believe and push creationism. It's highly likely if not down right proven that evolution occured and babbling on about how the world may only be 6000 years old just makes them look stupid. Even really smart guys come off looking ridiculously dumb and uninformed... That said, I'm all for debating it because, well, the debate won't last long and it will go something like this:

Person A: Well, the Bible says God created Adam and Eve and they were the first people on Earth and then it said he created all these other animals. So, that's how it happened.

Person B: Science has proven evolution occured. The Bible also said people lived in whales stomachs and this that and the other. It's not all factual. I win.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
ghostrunner wrote:I don't know. I've never had a class of any sort where philosophical discussions didn't come up. That's a good thing and part of learning. People are too hard core about this, IMO. I'm not saying teach both, but I'd be all for having the discussion and letting the science win.
I hate how the hard-core religous right candidates still believe and push creationism. It's highly likely if not down right proven that evolution occured and babbling on about how the world may only be 6000 years old just makes them look stupid. Even really smart guys come off looking ridiculously dumb and uninformed... That said, I'm all for debating it because, well, the debate won't last long and it will go something like this:

Person A: Well, the Bible says God created Adam and Eve and they were the first people on Earth and then it said he created all these other animals. So, that's how it happened.

Person B: Science has proven evolution occured. The Bible also said people lived in whales stomachs and this that and the other. It's not all factual. I win.
You need this easy-to-understand guide.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

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Proof that Obama is a Muslim.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Post by haltz »

ghostrunner wrote:
haltz wrote:
ghostrunner wrote:I'd be all for having the discussion and letting the science win.
There's no resolution beyond acknowledging that some people believe it for faith-based reasons. That belongs somewhere besides a science classroom.
Even in a supervised/moderated discussion among students? I disagree.

If the teacher's not comfortable with it, they shouldn't do it. But if they are, let them go at it. Not every class needs to stick to the syllabus. Those kinds of discussions were really the only time I was interested in high school.
That there's a different (rational, amicable) conclusion? I don't think there is. If someone wants to say that they believe something else happened besides evolution, that's fine. There's just no debate because it's apples to oranges. One's science and one's faith. That's why I don't think it belongs.

If you think kids should be allowed to bring things up on their own accord, I agree with that of course. It's just going nowhere.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Post by TimeForGuinness »

What good is the point of bringing up a theory that can't be proven in a science class for debate? Debating an opinion of faith or morals isn't science...well it's the science of philosophy...and I disagree with Popeye, most high school kids can handle philosophy if they can handle the bible.

Plus a little philosophy would probably go a long way in school...it teaches them to think, not just memorize.

Funding is another issue...

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Post by Popeye_Card »

TimeForGuinness wrote:...and I disagree with Popeye, most high school kids can handle philosophy if they can handle the bible.
I encourage you to hang out with a group of average high school kids for a while, and see if you come away with the same conclusion.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Post by TimeForGuinness »

Popeye_Card wrote:
TimeForGuinness wrote:...and I disagree with Popeye, most high school kids can handle philosophy if they can handle the bible.
I encourage you to hang out with a group of average high school kids for a while, and see if you come away with the same conclusion.
...Then why do they want to debate evolution vs. the bible...according to this thread, most students want to do that...not the religious right pushing their agenda.


...plus I think you are selling high schoolers short. They could have an honors class where they could discuss philosophy and religion (all religions not just christianity)...and I would be all for that.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Post by Popeye_Card »

TimeForGuinness wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
TimeForGuinness wrote:...and I disagree with Popeye, most high school kids can handle philosophy if they can handle the bible.
I encourage you to hang out with a group of average high school kids for a while, and see if you come away with the same conclusion.
...Then why do they want to debate evolution vs. the bible...according to this thread, most students want to do that...not the religious right pushing their agenda.


...plus I think you are selling high schoolers short. They could have an honors class where they could discuss philosophy and religion (all religions not just christianity)...and I would be all for that.
I don't think I am. I remember my freshman year of college with a dorm room full of former honor students discussing philosophy and religion. Ugh. I certainly wouldn't deem it very intelligent discussion, even though the room was full of intelligent people.

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