Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[ghostrunner]

Staying up with this thread is a full-time job. I already have two, so someone else will have to do it.

I'm thinking of applying for a government grant so I can devote my whole day to it.

[docellis]

If american car companies can't compete or survive to produce fuel-efficient cars, then they'll just have to start making better cars or start offering products that compete better with Hondas and Toyotas.

What if they don't (make better cars)? Or, what if they DO make better cars but people have already decided they aren't buying domestic cars anymore?

If American car companies fail and our government never made an attempt to give them a push - I don't know. I think it would be pretty castrophic. Maybe I am overstating it.

But, I'd be upset because if American car companies all fail, it doesn't just affect the owners of American car companies.

[Fat Strat]

Either way, the government is getting involved in an area that should be private enterprise. If american car companies can't compete or survive to produce fuel-efficient cars, then they'll just have to start making better cars or start offering products that compete better with Hondas and Toyotas.

This is something that's been going on for quite some time, though. At some point, once unemployment within the industry reaches horrible levels, shouldn't somebody step in and do something? It's easy to shrug your shoulders and say "It's their own fault and they need to fix it". But if it's beneficial for both employees and the industry to have government assistance, I don't really understand the issue with that assistance being doled out.

It is easy to shrug your shouldesr and say that, but at the same time, it's easy for politicians to continue collecting too much in taxes and then financing all kinds of unnecessary and ridiculous projects (that at the very least should be locally funded). It's also easy to see a chain reaction of disaster that isn't necessarily there. The unemployment issue is a slippery slope argument. After all, right now the auto industries aren't laying off thousands upon thousands and they are working hard to produce new vehicles, ones that can compete with imports. They got lazy for too long and now they're playing catch up.

Plus, why aren't the american car companies doing well? Is it really because their cars aren't economical? I don't think so. Prius' are popular, sure, but you see many more Malibus and Vibes on the road. The companies aren't doing well because people don't have the money to buy cars right now. Even if Chevy used the $4 billion from the government to mass produce a vehicle that got 150 mpg there's no chance in Hades that GM will offer it at $12,000.

As I suggested earlier, what if we cut taxes across the board, learned to govern on a budget, allowed state and local entities to secure voter-approved financing for their projects, and put $1000's of back into the pockets of people instead of bailing out GM? That, imo, is a better longterm result.

(and I'm not saying this is what McCain will do, rather, it's what I would like the republicans to do).

[ghostrunner]

Either way, the government is getting involved in an area that should be private enterprise. If american car companies can't compete or survive to produce fuel-efficient cars, then they'll just have to start making better cars or start offering products that compete better with Hondas and Toyotas.

This is something that's been going on for quite some time, though. At some point, once unemployment within the industry reaches horrible levels, shouldn't somebody step in and do something? It's easy to shrug your shoulders and say "It's their own fault and they need to fix it". But if it's beneficial for both employees and the industry to have government assistance, I don't really understand the issue with that assistance being doled out.

I think for one, you're giving money to companies that weren't competing well to start with. It's not like these companies haven't had the resources in the recent past. So theoretically, you're throwing good money after bad. I think you'd like to have some reason to think things would be different.

At this point we have Japanese companies making cars here (more of that god-awful globalization), so I don't see a big tragedy in Ford fading away.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Or, what if they DO make better cars but people have already decided they aren't buying domestic cars anymore?

Then the gov just wasted $4B since no one is going to buy them anyway.

Seriously though, it borderline upsets me when stuff like this happens. It's almost like buying votes.

"Oh, you're a swingstate, okay, I'll give you all $4B if you vote for me."

There are tons of land developers in this country sitting around with their thumb up their ass. Why do they not get money to support their business while the economy is down? Likely because there isn't a conglomeration in a swingstate.

[GatewaySnayke]

I can't help but love when Stewart gets on a roll: http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/cc_i ... t-ann.html

thats awesome

and so telling.

I missed it. But is Stewart still ripping on Obama? I hope so. I remember for the longest time he didn't, and then he started and the crowd wasn't crazy about it. I just like my political satire/humorous analysis to cover both parties.

Yes, he was making fun of Obama on Tuesday night when he had a visual of him pushing the water back from the levees. They made fun of him last Thursday night when they were "talking about" his speech and Aasif Mandvi started saying things about "change" and "hope." Jon asked why there was sunlight that late at night and he said it was because Obama opened up the sky.

This was a tremendous clip. In almost six minutes, Jon Stewart ripped Rove, Morris, Pfotenhauer and Palin.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

As I suggested earlier, what if we cut taxes across the board, learned to govern on a budget, allowed state and local entities to secure voter-approved financing for their projects, and put $1000's of back into the pockets of people instead of bailing out GM? That, imo, is a better longterm result.

FS for presy prez!!

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Either way, the government is getting involved in an area that should be private enterprise. If american car companies can't compete or survive to produce fuel-efficient cars, then they'll just have to start making better cars or start offering products that compete better with Hondas and Toyotas.

This is something that's been going on for quite some time, though. At some point, once unemployment within the industry reaches horrible levels, shouldn't somebody step in and do something? It's easy to shrug your shoulders and say "It's their own fault and they need to fix it". But if it's beneficial for both employees and the industry to have government assistance, I don't really understand the issue with that assistance being doled out.

I think for one, you're giving money to companies that weren't competing well to start with. It's not like these companies haven't had the resources in the recent past. So theoretically, you're throwing good money after bad. I think you'd like to have some reason to think things would be different.

At this point we have Japanese companies making cars here (more of that god-awful globalization), so I don't see a big tragedy in Ford fading away.

Exactly. Aren't Hyundai's and Kia's and Saturns all being produced down in the South somewhere....like AL or GA or something.

[obucard]

If american car companies can't compete or survive to produce fuel-efficient cars, then they'll just have to start making better cars or start offering products that compete better with Hondas and Toyotas.

What if they don't (make better cars)? Or, what if they DO make better cars but people have already decided they aren't buying domestic cars anymore?

If American car companies fail and our government never made an attempt to give them a push - I don't know. I think it would be pretty castrophic. Maybe I am overstating it.

But, I'd be upset because if American car companies all fail, it doesn't just affect the owners of American car companies.

The problem is the government has already tried. During the last oil crisis people started buying imports for reported better fuel efficiency and discovered they were much better cars. Detroit's response was to complain to Washington that nobody was buying American anymore. Even today sales trends point toward vehicles with fuel efficiency, yet they continue to make gas guzzling trucks and SUVs and wonder why they aren't selling.

[Popeye_Card]

Even today sales trends point toward vehicles with fuel efficiency, yet they continue to make gas guzzling trucks and SUVs and wonder why they aren't selling.

Toyota and Honda make plenty of gas-guzzling SUV's themselves, and domestic vehicles are neck-and-neck with most of their competitors with fuel economy on similar cars.

We can say it's on the domestic car companies all we want, but if they end up failing, that is a HUGE drag on the entire economy. I don't really care if it's a bail-out--$4 billion is a cheap last-ditch effort to both stabilize the auto industry, and make a dent in consumption (which in turn leads to a cut in the oil production/consumption gap).