Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[tothebeach08]

It's amazing, and a bit disgusting from a political standpoint, that this issue is debated every election. And the only reason is because it's a convenient issue that divides the country and is used to manipulate voters. It's certainly not an unimportant issue but can anyone honestly argue that this is one of the primary issues that needs to be addressed by the next President?

I think this is an excellent point. No one is going to change anyone else's mind about this subject especially not on what's intended to be a baseball fan website. Maybe someone can steer this back toward the initial topic, because this is making me nervous, I hate confrontations, but that's just me. Proceed.....

[tenniseleven]

so far there's been as much pandering to the right as pandering to the left...

I think the thread has gone about as well as a political thread can, aside from all the abortion talk...


I wish we didn't have to talk about morality in policy issues at all, but some people make it an issue...

hell, the politicians don't care about morality when they're in office....it's means to and end, rather than doing whats right or wrong, as the current administration has proven time and time again...

[wart57]

so far there's been as much pandering to the right as pandering to the left...

I think the thread has gone about as well as a political thread can, aside from all the abortion talk...


I wish we didn't have to talk about morality in policy issues at all, but some people make it an issue...

hell, the politicians don't care about morality when they're in office....it's means to and end, rather than doing whats right or wrong, as the current administration has proven time and time again...

The Clinton administration was sure big on morals.... And I voted for Bill both times.

[Socnorb11]

People have beliefs. I believe abortion is killing a baby. Sorry if this does not mesh with your moral code, but it is my belief.

Wart, you don't think that was irresponsible? Kids that age are very impressionable and I'm sure they would take that statement literally. If you feel that strongly that anyone who holds a pro-choice stance is a murderer, I'm surprised you are still undecided.

Bumping this question for wart. I don't have a problem with parents teaching their kids their belief; I just think they should wait until they're old enough to understand and even then, do it in a manner that avoids such inflammatory language.

I think parents do a lot of things wrong, including what language they use. I am still undecided because I won't let one single issue make my mind up.
To another comment made, if it makes you fell better to think the fetus is not alive, go ahead and believe that. I think that unborn child is the most vulnerable life on the planet, and when an abortion occurs, the baby is killed. I know of nothing that can make that right in my mind.
My adopted sister was date raped when she was 17, she had the baby, my parents adopted the child. I now have a beautiful adopted sister or niece whichever you want, that would not have been here if she were deemed a "choice" and not a baby.

Well, then you're obviously not expected to hold an objective opinion on this matter, and that's fine.

What if it wasn't a beautiful baby girl? What if it was a baby diagnosed in the womb with an un-developed skull that would live as a vegetable from the day it was born? What if the 17 year old girl didn't have wonderful parents to support her emotionally, and adopt the child? It's not a black and white issue, in my mind. As someone said earlier (Gatewaysnayke?), it's not a matter of being in favor of unconditional abortion..... it's a matter of individual free choice.

And if you honestly think that a candidate is OK with killing babies, what issue could possibly sway your vote in their favor? Seems to me that condoning the murder of the most vulnerable life on the planet would be a deal-breaker.

[lukethedrifter]

so far there's been as much pandering to the right as pandering to the left...

I think the thread has gone about as well as a political thread can, aside from all the abortion talk...


I wish we didn't have to talk about morality in policy issues at all, but some people make it an issue...

hell, the politicians don't care about morality when they're in office....it's means to and end, rather than doing whats right or wrong, as the current administration has proven time and time again...

The Clinton administration was sure big on morals.... And I voted for Bill both times.

The above drives me crazy. Moralizing about politicians lack of morals. You're gonna have to go way back to find a morally pure President. In fact, it'd be a fools errand trying.

[tenniseleven]

of course the Clintons...

it's Simony, and it's everywhere in America....

there's a reason why 50% of marriages end in divorce and 70% of America considers itself christian....

[wart57]

People have beliefs. I believe abortion is killing a baby. Sorry if this does not mesh with your moral code, but it is my belief.

Wart, you don't think that was irresponsible? Kids that age are very impressionable and I'm sure they would take that statement literally. If you feel that strongly that anyone who holds a pro-choice stance is a murderer, I'm surprised you are still undecided.

Bumping this question for wart. I don't have a problem with parents teaching their kids their belief; I just think they should wait until they're old enough to understand and even then, do it in a manner that avoids such inflammatory language.

I think parents do a lot of things wrong, including what language they use. I am still undecided because I won't let one single issue make my mind up.
To another comment made, if it makes you fell better to think the fetus is not alive, go ahead and believe that. I think that unborn child is the most vulnerable life on the planet, and when an abortion occurs, the baby is killed. I know of nothing that can make that right in my mind.
My adopted sister was date raped when she was 17, she had the baby, my parents adopted the child. I now have a beautiful adopted sister or niece whichever you want, that would not have been here if she were deemed a "choice" and not a baby.

Well, then you're obviously not expected to hold an objective opinion on this matter, and that's fine.

What if it wasn't a beautiful baby girl? What if it was a baby diagnosed in the womb with an un-developed skull that would live as a vegetable from the day it was born? What if the 17 year old girl didn't have wonderful parents to support her emotionally, and adopt the child? It's not a black and white issue, in my mind. As someone said earlier (Gatewaysnayke?), it's not a matter of being in favor of unconditional abortion..... it's a matter of individual free choice.

And if you honestly think that a candidate is OK with killing babies, what issue could possibly sway your vote in their favor? Seems to me that condoning the murder of the most vulnerable life on the planet would be a deal-breaker.

So the baby would not be a person if it was born with a birth defect? If things would have been difficult on the mother it is ok to kill the baby? I never said Obama was a baby killer. I am done with the abortion issue, I gave my stance, I am not changing my mind. I heard the heartbeat of my child when it was 4 weeks old in my wifes womb, to me that is life, and nothing can justify taking that life. I will not talk about this issue any more since my opinions upset so many people, and I can't be objective. It is sure nice to know others can have opinions and beliefs but I can't. Carry on.

[Socnorb11]

So the baby would not be a person if it was born with a birth defect? If things would have been difficult on the mother it is ok to kill the baby? I never said Obama was a baby killer. I am done with the abortion issue, I gave my stance, I am not changing my mind. I heard the heartbeat of my child when it was 4 weeks old in my wifes womb, to me that is life, and nothing can justify taking that life. I will not talk about this issue any more since my opinions upset so many people, and I can't be objective. It is sure nice to know others can have opinions and beliefs but I can't. Carry on.

You seem to be the only one that's having trouble discussing this calmly.

I never said anything about "things being difficult for the mother". I'm talking about how difficult life is going to be for the child that is born to a teenage mother that has nothing. Some of those children suffer unmercifully. I'm thankful that your sister had places to go to make a good life for the child, but some people just don't. It's an unfortunate reality.

[Radbird]

Well, then you're obviously not expected to hold an objective opinion on this matter, and that's fine.

I think all of our opinions are to a large extent based on our life experiences and, therefore, not objective. And I agree, that's fine. My opinions are based on my upbringing, my faith, and that college experience I shared a couple of pages ago. There hasn't been one day in the past 3 decades that I haven't thought about that "choice", wondered if I should have/could have done more to prevent it, and what is forever missing from my life because of it.

Wart - you can bow out of this discussion if you choose, but I'm as interested in your opinion as anyone else's.

[Socnorb11]

Well, then you're obviously not expected to hold an objective opinion on this matter, and that's fine.

I think all of our opinions are to a large extent based on our life experiences and, therefore, not objective. And I agree, that's fine. My opinions are based on my upbringing, my faith, and that college experience I shared a couple of pages ago. There hasn't been one day in the past 3 decades that I haven't thought about that "choice", wondered if I should have/could have done more to prevent it, and what is forever missing from my life because of it.

Wart - you can bow out of this discussion if you choose, but I'm as interested in your opinion as anyone else's.

All true.

I think it's harder to be objective when you have had a direct life impact by such a decision, though...... such as Wart and you.