Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[TimeForGuinness]

I find it funny when Republicans speak of Obama as a cult like following...kinda like Reagan or the Christian Right?

Pot
Kettle
Black (no pun)
FTW!

(joeybombed)

[Fat Strat]

The more that I'm hearing and learning, the more I'm liking Palin as the VP. A mom with a kid heading over to Iraq? A solid speaker, energetic, and young? Just a great choice all around.

I think that you democrats need to keep in mind that she's not going to be out there pulling in Hilary democrats. She's going to pull in moderate women and fence-sitters who are in swing states like Ohio or Missouri.

Yeah, it's a great pick. I can't deny it. It kinda takes away from the whole "Obama making history" storyline too. We've never had a women VP.

I forgot to make my most important point. The best way to get elected president is to motivate your base to get out and vote. This pick will do that far more than anyone that McCain could have picked, with the possible exception of Huckabee.

[wart57]

It's interesting that he thinks we've had the best convention speech ever and the riskiest VP choice ever in the space of two days.

The comment about the convention speech may have been out of fear. The second is completely plausible. Marsha Blackburn just said that Palin has more experience than Obama, citing her being a "wife, mother, PTA member, businessperson, mayor and governor" and that means more than just sitting on some committee in the senate.

Blackburn had to actually list her being a wife, mother and PTA member to thicken her resume.

I want you to clairify that a little, are you saying that being a wife and mother is an easy job and should not be listed as accoplishments?

[Jocephus]

i saw palins son at her speech

[SHOW]

[Jocephus]

i saw palins son at her speech

[SHOW]

haha...i jsut realized willow is a girl

so there goes my addition to this glorious thread

[BW23]

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/disc ... hp?t=26089

Very, very, very interesting

That forum has no official affiliation to Hillary, but...still

Positive small sample size right there for Republicans

That's bizarre to me. It's like it was all about Hillary being a woman.

Is that really surprising?

Don't you think this will easily be the highest black voter turnout ever?

Well, that makes more sense to me. Blacks have historically been strongly Democratic anyway. I don't think that many would jump ship for a black republican like JC Watts.

Women have always been on both sides, so I'm a bit surprised that anyone would vote primarily based on gender.

I think if Powell had run 8 years ago that you would have seen a record number of blacks vote. Yes, the race has strongly been Democratic. But I also think there's a lot to be said about the possibility of the first black president. I've already seen and heard that a lot in my community with both young and older blacks.

I guess nothing really surprises me anymore. In a way, I guess that's sad.

[ghostrunner]

It's definitely a good pick, and worth whatever talking points they might lose. The governor/senator thing is I think a fair distinction to make. I don't buy it personally, but it's a fair point.

She seems to have very, very solid support from the base (who aren't that concerned by her experience) , and will probably attract some women voters and some Democrats. She's probably a bit more charming to your average American than Joe Biden.

Both her and McCain will have sons in Iraq soon, so that lends some weight to their position, and nobody can hang the "fortunate son" thing on them.

[Radbird]

I agree that Palin may pull in some (if not many) of the moderate, fence-sitting women.

I would also think that most of the women who supported Hillary would be put off by Palin's pro-life stance, but perhaps their vitriol for Obama is such that they'll overlook that tidbit.

[clevername]

It's interesting that he thinks we've had the best convention speech ever and the riskiest VP choice ever in the space of two days.

The comment about the convention speech may have been out of fear. The second is completely plausible. Marsha Blackburn just said that Palin has more experience than Obama, citing her being a "wife, mother, PTA member, businessperson, mayor and governor" and that means more than just sitting on some committee in the senate.

Blackburn had to actually list her being a wife, mother and PTA member to thicken her resume.

I want you to clairify that a little, are you saying that being a wife and mother is an easy job and should not be listed as accoplishments?

not for President/Vice President of the United States.

[jimedmondsfan]

It was a good "speech," but to me there wasn't a lot of substance in there, like there was in the speech on race. This one was purposefully broad and about ideas. I understand why, but I think it's hard for these kinds of speeches to be great. It's always a lot of blowing smoke up your own party's butt. Not much to chew on, really.

What do you mean by "substance"? I thought it was jam-packed with substance, outlining the differences between himself and McCain.

Maybe substance is the wrong word. I agree he outlined the differences. I just don't think any half hour speech about these kinds of general topics is ever going to be that interesting to me. He promised a lot of things, and I still don't know how he'll do them. In that respect it's no different from many other convention speeches.

I think the race speech is going to be studied for years. I was actually "wowed" by it. This one served it's purpose well enough, but I think it will be forgotten in a year or so.

Well, as Popeye said, short of presenting the nation with a spreadsheet of proposed federal expenditures and revenues, I think Obama did a pretty good job of addressing how he wants to address the issues:

Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I've laid out how I'll pay for every dime - by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow. But I will also go through the federal budget, line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less - because we cannot meet twenty-first century challenges with a twentieth century bureaucracy.

And Democrats, we must also admit that fulfilling America's promise will require more than just money. It will require a renewed sense of responsibility from each of us to recover what John F. Kennedy called our "intellectual and moral strength." Yes, government must lead on energy independence, but each of us must do our part to make our homes and businesses more efficient. Yes, we must provide more ladders to success for young men who fall into lives of crime and despair. But we must also admit that programs alone can't replace parents; that government can't turn off the television and make a child do her homework; that fathers must take more responsibility for providing the love and guidance their children need.

Individual responsibility and mutual responsibility - that's the essence of America's promise.

His speech will be forgotten by some, of course. But if you weren't inspired by it, it's only because you don't want to be inspired, in my opinion.

Bush 41 and 43 tried to get a line-item veto, but weren't able to get Congress to give up that kind of power, what makes him think he can???