Why all the hate for the suburbs?

[MrSaigon]

As a country guy, my problem is that the suburbs are slowly encroaching into the country, and soon this won't be the country anymore but rather just part of the Portland sprawl. I live on the Clackamas River and it's beautiful, plus Portland is just 20 minutes away, and all reasonable needs can be met with a 10 minute drive or so. You could call it a rural suburb I guess. Ideal, I think (except that I'm living with my folks).

If developers have their way every tree between here and Portland will be cut down so they build a house where it used to stand that is three feet away from the house next to it that it looks the exact same as.

[stlouie_lipp]

If developers have their way every tree between here and Portland will be cut down so they build a house where it used to stand that is three feet away from the house next to it that it looks the exact same as.

Substitute "tree" for "farm land" and "Portland" for "Chicago" and that's what I'm looking at as far as suburbs go.

[MrCrowesGarden]

For me, the suburbs are just too far away from the things I enjoy. You'll occasionally find some fine dining in the 'burbs, but they're going to be few and far between compared to the city (or even small towns). Same with good bars, for the most part you're going to find chain bars that just don't have that personal feel. Same goes for things like farmers markets and whatnot.

And then the environment is fake - sure, it's great for kids to have a nice back yard to play in with green grass and trees (we have that in the city too, btw), but I'd much rather have those acres and acres of land devoted to what was there before (prairie, wetlands, forest, etc). I like watching the birds and squirrels in my backyard (again, I do that in the city) but I'd much rather have land close by I can hike around in - because the suburbs have eaten it all up, I have to drive a ways to get to actual wilderness.

And the suburbs lack the vibrancy and diversity you see in the city - or at least the avenues for people living there to express themselves. No (or not as many) art galleries, concert venues, theaters that specialize in movies the big ones don't show... And this goes for all ends of the spectrum, there's no real venue for liberals OR conservatives to express themselves musically, or in art, or whatever in the suburbs - at least not as well as they could in the city (or a small town).

I guess for me it really comes down to the suburbs lack of a central community (both physically and mentally). A lack of a place for a farmers market to even setup, or a lack of that "town spirit". What is there to support or rally behind in a suburb? All you really are is a collection of subdivisions and strip malls. At least for me, I get a stronger sense of ownership in the city or small town, in the suburbs I just kind of own my little house, do my own thing, and I really don't care what happens a street over.

... this all depends on what you define as a suburb though.

But, and I suppose this is what I don't understand from the city perspective, is why suburbs are seen as fundamentally defective by the people who don't live in them.

I think each one has its own advantages. The suburbs really are perfect for me, I suppose:

-Hate the bar scene
-Never cared about art galleries or music venues or anything really like that
-Have a general disinterest in people

Sure, it's extremely different from city life, but it's far from broken, which is the attitude I pick up from a lot of people on here.

[Michael]

The suburbs really are perfect for me, I suppose:

-Hate the bar scene
-Never cared about art galleries or music venues or anything really like that
-Have a general disinterest in people

i don't think this is helping your case.

[maddash]

The suburbs really are perfect for me, I suppose:

-Hate the bar scene
-Never cared about art galleries or music venues or anything really like that
-Have a general disinterest in people

i don't think this is helping your case.

Yeah, I'd have to agree.

"Fundamentally defective" isn't how I'd put it, but I would say that what you (MrCrowesGarden) have described is a boring life (at least for me), and I think that's the rep that the suburbs have: boring, predictable, repetitive...

[jim]

If developers have their way every tree between here and Portland will be cut down so they build a house where it used to stand that is three feet away from the house next to it that it looks the exact same as.

Substitute "tree" for "farm land" and "Portland" for "Chicago" and that's what I'm looking at as far as suburbs go.

It already swallowed me up. We moved here because it wasn't a suburb, but the sprawl overtook us. I figure you are 10 years away lipp.

I would never choose to live in a big city but I think the suburbs are worse. 90% of the hassle with only 10% of the benefit.

[ghostrunner]

I like the suburbs, but they're definitely not all the same. That's part of my problem with some of these comments Some are built with the existing land in mind, though that's the case for few of the newer ones. Many of them just plow and flatten and throw up house after house that look the same. I don't enjoy that. But there are some that have grown fairly naturally with a lot of unique houses. Even in St. Louis, some areas that are perhaps considered in the city were suburbs at one point.

Is the city life best? It depends how you live your life. I've lived in the city before and I liked it. We went out to restaurants and bars, etc.... That was all fun. But we're older now and had our fill of that. It's not something a person has to outgrow, but we did. We like to cook, and even delis are expensive. My wife likes to garden. We have a kid we want to spend time with. I want him to pull up rocks - rocks that he knows, and hide things under them to find again later.

The city can be loud, dirty, noisy, crowded. I have room in my head for that, but it's not something I want all the time these days. It gets old for me. I'm not sociable with strangers, so the romantic notion of being among a diverse and vibrant population is lost on me. I can have good conversations with people I know well, but I'm in my own head a lot of the time. I'm a homebody, and I'm cool with that. I like peace and quiet. I like to lay on my hammock when the weather's nice and not hear cars whizzing by. When my son is older, he'll probably be able to play ball in the yard or go to another kids house and do the same. I played with my neighbors every weekend when I was a kid.

Some people seem to think it's more environmentally responsible to live in the city. I think you can argue that. But at the same time, what good is it to save the environment if you're going to spend all your time away from it around a bunch of large buildings? I'm not suggesting I'm Henry David Thoreau, but I do have a treeline around me. It's about as good an approximation of nature as I can find without having to drive too far to jobs or groceries. I'm sure some animals were run out whenever this area was developed 40 years ago. New York City is essentially an island that was paved over with a concrete canyon built on top. Fun? Yes. I wouldn't begrudge anyone's enjoyment of that, but I'm not sure I see the nobility in it.

[maddash]

Some people seem to think it's more environmentally responsible to live in the city. I think you can argue that. But at the same time, what good is it to save the environment if you're going to spend all your time away from it around a bunch of large buildings? I'm not suggesting I'm Henry David Thoreau, but I do have a treeline around me. It's about as good an approximation of nature as I can find without having to drive too far to jobs or groceries. I'm sure some animals were run out whenever this area was developed 40 years ago. New York City is essentially an island that was paved over with a concrete canyon built on top. Fun? Yes. I wouldn't begrudge anyone's enjoyment of that, but I'm not sure I see the nobility in it.

Everything you said was very well stated ghost, but I do have a minor issue with this part. My issue with the suburbs from an environmental standpoint (putting aside the "green" aspect) is that it's like animals in a zoo, sure it's a close approximation of nature... but why not have the real thing. A least with the city you understand that you're destroying the natural environment, but minimizing the damage to a relatively small area. With the suburbs, you're destroying much more of the natural environment and trying to replace it with grass and trees not native to the area. As a kid, I hiked through suburb "forests" and the real thing, and there's just no comparison. The suburb forest is a few acres of trees and heavy growth but not a whole lot of life, and a lot of concrete (which looked like cool ruins to us kids) that are there to redirect creeks... and you're hiking just a yards from someone's backyard most of the time. The real thing is just something else altogether.

I'm not saying I begrudge anyone's enjoyment of that... but if you really enjoy it, wouldn't you be much better suited in the country? I guess I just don't understand someone saying they like living close to nature and then saying the suburbs suit their needs. Same thing with privacy. The country would be a much better place if you want real privacy. The suburbs just kind of seem like a half-assed attempt at both those things.

Maybe that's the best way I can put it - the 'burbs are neither good or bad... just half-assed.

[docellis]

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[stlouie_lipp]

If developers have their way every tree between here and Portland will be cut down so they build a house where it used to stand that is three feet away from the house next to it that it looks the exact same as.

Substitute "tree" for "farm land" and "Portland" for "Chicago" and that's what I'm looking at as far as suburbs go.

It already swallowed me up. We moved here because it wasn't a suburb, but the sprawl overtook us. I figure you are 10 years away lipp.

I would never choose to live in a big city but I think the suburbs are worse. 90% of the hassle with only 10% of the benefit.

I thought about you when I read this thread. I think I am less then 10 years away...the gap between your "suburban" town to my "country" town is shrinking.

Have you seen that winery that is being built on 38?