Michael Vick

[TheoSqua]

Even the dog fighting doesn't really bother me that much. If one of our mainstream forms of entertainment is watching two trained guys beat the living crap out of each other, then I don't see how people can be offended when people do the same thing with dogs.

What I think is repulsive is how they treat the dogs, and what they do with the losers. Especially if they let the fights last long enough that the dogs are mortally wounded.

[omaha_red]

Even the dog fighting doesn't really bother me that much. If one of our mainstream forms of entertainment is watching two trained guys beat the living crap out of each other, then I don't see how people can be offended when people do the same thing with dogs..

here's the problem with that.. the dogs have no choice but to fight..
it'd be one thing if the dogs all got together and put on dog fights themselves..
but people are doing this to them.. that's what's wrong with dog fighting..
the dogs are "forced" to try to kill eachother.. that doesn't bother you?

you mention you don't like how the dogs are treated.. but the actual dog fighting
doesn't bother you.. that doesn't make any sense..

[Adrian Wapcaplet]

Even the dog fighting doesn't really bother me that much. If one of our mainstream forms of entertainment is watching two trained guys beat the living crap out of each other, then I don't see how people can be offended when people do the same thing with dogs.

I wasn't aware Fido had the option of telling Michael Vick "Sorry, I don't feel like fighting today."

(EDIT to acknowledge that Omaha beat me to the punch.)

[maddash]

Even the dog fighting doesn't really bother me that much. If one of our mainstream forms of entertainment is watching two trained guys beat the living crap out of each other, then I don't see how people can be offended when people do the same thing with dogs..

here's the problem with that.. the dogs have no choice but to fight..
it'd be one thing if the dogs all got together and put on dog fights themselves..
but people are doing this to them.. that's what's wrong with dog fighting..
the dogs are "forced" to try to kill eachother.. that doesn't bother you?

you mention you don't like how the dogs are treated.. but the actual dog fighting
doesn't bother you.. that doesn't make any sense..

I think it's a thin line at times with how humans treat animals. I don't condone dog fighting, but I don't have a huge problem with [expletive] fighting (especially when it's tied so tightly into certain cultures). I eat veal and fois gras, but I don't think I'd ever eat dog or horse. I think rodeos are for wanna-be cowboys, but I don't have much of a problem with them hauling horses around for hours on end in these cramped little trailers.

Obviously, the level of treatment the dogs were subject to was appalling on many levels, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's appalling because they were forced to do it - we force animals to do a lot of things I'm sure they have little to no interest in (like being our pets). I think it's ok to force animals to do things they don't want, as long as it falls under a (sometimes gray) level of humane and non-cruel treatment.

[stlouie_lipp]

Even the dog fighting doesn't really bother me that much. If one of our mainstream forms of entertainment is watching two trained guys beat the living crap out of each other, then I don't see how people can be offended when people do the same thing with dogs.

What I think is repulsive is how they treat the dogs, and what they do with the losers. Especially if they let the fights last long enough that the dogs are mortally wounded.

2 words....free will. People have it, dogs don't.

[G. Keenan]

Even the dog fighting doesn't really bother me that much. If one of our mainstream forms of entertainment is watching two trained guys beat the living crap out of each other, then I don't see how people can be offended when people do the same thing with dogs..

here's the problem with that.. the dogs have no choice but to fight..
it'd be one thing if the dogs all got together and put on dog fights themselves..
but people are doing this to them.. that's what's wrong with dog fighting..
the dogs are "forced" to try to kill eachother.. that doesn't bother you?

you mention you don't like how the dogs are treated.. but the actual dog fighting
doesn't bother you.. that doesn't make any sense..

I think it's a thin line at times with how humans treat animals. I don't condone dog fighting, but I don't have a huge problem with [expletive] fighting (especially when it's tied so tightly into certain cultures). I eat veal and fois gras, but I don't think I'd ever eat dog or horse. I think rodeos are for wanna-be cowboys, but I don't have much of a problem with them hauling horses around for hours on end in these cramped little trailers.

Obviously, the level of treatment the dogs were subject to was appalling on many levels, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's appalling because they were forced to do it - we force animals to do a lot of things I'm sure they have little to no interest in (like being our pets). I think it's ok to force animals to do things they don't want, as long as it falls under a (sometimes gray) level of humane and non-cruel treatment.

I don't know why, but I'm not outraged by this like a lot of people are. It's not that I don't think it's wrong, just that it doesn't surprise me that people do this.

I also think it's a little hypocritical for people to be so outraged about cruel treatment of dogs because they are animals we have deemed companions, whereas animals we have deemed food are treated cruelly all the time. If you eat pork, odds are good that that the pig you are eating lived its entire life in a hog factory, with another hog in front of it, and another so close behind it that the animals all have to be given antibiotics to fight the infections they get from chewing each other's tails off. That is their entire existence until they got killed for food. Where's the outrage about this?

[omaha_red]

Even the dog fighting doesn't really bother me that much. If one of our mainstream forms of entertainment is watching two trained guys beat the living crap out of each other, then I don't see how people can be offended when people do the same thing with dogs..

here's the problem with that.. the dogs have no choice but to fight..
it'd be one thing if the dogs all got together and put on dog fights themselves..
but people are doing this to them.. that's what's wrong with dog fighting..
the dogs are "forced" to try to kill eachother.. that doesn't bother you?

you mention you don't like how the dogs are treated.. but the actual dog fighting
doesn't bother you.. that doesn't make any sense..

I think it's a thin line at times with how humans treat animals. I don't condone dog fighting, but I don't have a huge problem with [expletive] fighting (especially when it's tied so tightly into certain cultures). I eat veal and fois gras, but I don't think I'd ever eat dog or horse. I think rodeos are for wanna-be cowboys, but I don't have much of a problem with them hauling horses around for hours on end in these cramped little trailers.

Obviously, the level of treatment the dogs were subject to was appalling on many levels, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's appalling because they were forced to do it - we force animals to do a lot of things I'm sure they have little to no interest in (like being our pets). I think it's ok to force animals to do things they don't want, as long as it falls under a (sometimes gray) level of humane and non-cruel treatment.

I don't know why, but I'm not outraged by this like a lot of people are. It's not that I don't think it's wrong, just that it doesn't surprise me that people do this.

I also think it's a little hypocritical for people to be so outraged about cruel treatment of dogs because they are animals we have deemed companions, whereas animals we have deemed food are treated cruelly all the time. If you eat pork, odds are good that that the pig you are eating lived its entire life in a hog factory, with another hog in front of it, and another so close behind it that the animals all have to be given antibiotics to fight the infections they get from chewing each other's tails off. That is their entire existence until they got killed for food. Where's the outrage about this?

i'm disappointed in you.

[maddash]

Even the dog fighting doesn't really bother me that much. If one of our mainstream forms of entertainment is watching two trained guys beat the living crap out of each other, then I don't see how people can be offended when people do the same thing with dogs..

here's the problem with that.. the dogs have no choice but to fight..
it'd be one thing if the dogs all got together and put on dog fights themselves..
but people are doing this to them.. that's what's wrong with dog fighting..
the dogs are "forced" to try to kill eachother.. that doesn't bother you?

you mention you don't like how the dogs are treated.. but the actual dog fighting
doesn't bother you.. that doesn't make any sense..

I think it's a thin line at times with how humans treat animals. I don't condone dog fighting, but I don't have a huge problem with [expletive] fighting (especially when it's tied so tightly into certain cultures). I eat veal and fois gras, but I don't think I'd ever eat dog or horse. I think rodeos are for wanna-be cowboys, but I don't have much of a problem with them hauling horses around for hours on end in these cramped little trailers.

Obviously, the level of treatment the dogs were subject to was appalling on many levels, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's appalling because they were forced to do it - we force animals to do a lot of things I'm sure they have little to no interest in (like being our pets). I think it's ok to force animals to do things they don't want, as long as it falls under a (sometimes gray) level of humane and non-cruel treatment.

I don't know why, but I'm not outraged by this like a lot of people are. It's not that I don't think it's wrong, just that it doesn't surprise me that people do this.

I also think it's a little hypocritical for people to be so outraged about cruel treatment of dogs because they are animals we have deemed companions, whereas animals we have deemed food are treated cruelly all the time. If you eat pork, odds are good that that the pig you are eating lived its entire life in a hog factory, with another hog in front of it, and another so close behind it that the animals all have to be given antibiotics to fight the infections they get from chewing each other's tails off. That is their entire existence until they got killed for food. Where's the outrage about this?

I think we put certain animals (like dogs and cats) on a higher level than others - sometimes it's based on what we perceive to be their mental capacity, but mostly I think their elevation has nothing to do with science. Pets like cats and dogs mimic human behave, because of that we think they're "more human" than a pig or cow or whatever, therefor they should be treated more humanely. I'm not quite sure if a dog or cat is smarter or feels more pain than a pig though.

Still, I think those limits are important. Even if a pig feels as much pain as a dog, there's something to be said about humans picking out at least a few animal to care for and hold above others - it keeps us all a little more humane (IMO) yet still allows us to eat meat.

[G. Keenan]

Even the dog fighting doesn't really bother me that much. If one of our mainstream forms of entertainment is watching two trained guys beat the living crap out of each other, then I don't see how people can be offended when people do the same thing with dogs..

here's the problem with that.. the dogs have no choice but to fight..
it'd be one thing if the dogs all got together and put on dog fights themselves..
but people are doing this to them.. that's what's wrong with dog fighting..
the dogs are "forced" to try to kill eachother.. that doesn't bother you?

you mention you don't like how the dogs are treated.. but the actual dog fighting
doesn't bother you.. that doesn't make any sense..

I think it's a thin line at times with how humans treat animals. I don't condone dog fighting, but I don't have a huge problem with [expletive] fighting (especially when it's tied so tightly into certain cultures). I eat veal and fois gras, but I don't think I'd ever eat dog or horse. I think rodeos are for wanna-be cowboys, but I don't have much of a problem with them hauling horses around for hours on end in these cramped little trailers.

Obviously, the level of treatment the dogs were subject to was appalling on many levels, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's appalling because they were forced to do it - we force animals to do a lot of things I'm sure they have little to no interest in (like being our pets). I think it's ok to force animals to do things they don't want, as long as it falls under a (sometimes gray) level of humane and non-cruel treatment.

I don't know why, but I'm not outraged by this like a lot of people are. It's not that I don't think it's wrong, just that it doesn't surprise me that people do this.

I also think it's a little hypocritical for people to be so outraged about cruel treatment of dogs because they are animals we have deemed companions, whereas animals we have deemed food are treated cruelly all the time. If you eat pork, odds are good that that the pig you are eating lived its entire life in a hog factory, with another hog in front of it, and another so close behind it that the animals all have to be given antibiotics to fight the infections they get from chewing each other's tails off. That is their entire existence until they got killed for food. Where's the outrage about this?

i'm disappointed in you.

I'm not trying to defend Vick. If what he and his buddies are accused of is true, the man is a monster and should rot in jail. I can see that. For whatever reasons I'm not reacting emotionally to this story like a lot of people are.

I think that's because there is so much animal cruelty out there that I'm jaded. Also because I've assumed these dogs were pit bulls, which I have no feelings for. It's not like he took my dogs and made them fight. These are dogs that were bred specifically for fighting, and as fighting dogs go, they tend to be pit bulls. I know that's not the dogs' fault, they're just not a breed I associate with pet status because of their use as fighting dogs.

[G. Keenan]

Still, I think those limits are important. Even if a pig feels as much pain as a dog, there's something to be said about humans picking out at least a few animal to care for and hold above others - it keeps us all a little more humane (IMO) yet still allows us to eat meat.

I eat meat, so I'm a hypocrite for saying this, but we understand very little about how animals work, what they may or may not feel, what life is like from their perspective. It's wrong for us to play God and decide which ones get to live, and which ones have to die for our pleasure.