Interesting Lab Study

omaha_red · Post by **omaha_red** » April 25 07, 8:39 am

it's too easy for people to choose the competitve season now
that we've just won the world series.. i bet the vote would
be much different had we not won last year..

skmsw · Post by **skmsw** » April 25 07, 8:42 am

Cronos69 wrote:
jim wrote:It's 3-0 right now, and if choice B stays in the lead I'm gonna say I don't believe it. I can remember people getting eaten alive on this board by suggesting that last seasons World Series winning campaign was not as satisfying as some other years.
Which implies to me that people aren't thinking clearly on the subject and switching mindsets, seeing as how the view isn't overly positive on the current team right now. A bit of cognitive dissonance, more or less.

But how do you know it is NOW that the thinking is unclear? Right now, the world championship is only three weeks old (e.g. til the games start again), and the bad play is real. The up-sides and down-sides of both are relatively accessible; there's some balance to realistically decide which means more.

As opposed to previous times we've had this discussion, when the world series was 24 years old and good play was taken for granted. Maybe those who are changing their minds are seeing the issue more clearly, given the juxtaposition.

omaha_red · Post by **omaha_red** » April 25 07, 8:44 am

skmsw wrote:
Cronos69 wrote:
jim wrote:It's 3-0 right now, and if choice B stays in the lead I'm gonna say I don't believe it. I can remember people getting eaten alive on this board by suggesting that last seasons World Series winning campaign was not as satisfying as some other years.
Which implies to me that people aren't thinking clearly on the subject and switching mindsets, seeing as how the view isn't overly positive on the current team right now. A bit of cognitive dissonance, more or less.
But how do you know it is NOW that the thinking is unclear? Right now, the world championship is only three weeks old (e.g. til the games start again), and the bad play is real. The up-sides and down-sides of both are relatively accessible; there's some balance to realistically decide which means more.

As opposed to previous times we've had this discussion, when the world series was 24 years old and good play was taken for granted. Maybe those who are changing their minds are seeing the issue more clearly, given the juxtaposition.

why do you hate it that we won the world series last year?

Post by **heyzeus** » April 25 07, 8:44 am

I believe the famous quote of economist John Maynard Keynes applies to this scenario: "In the long run, we're all dead." There's a strong element of myopia in the sports fan; we want it now, not at some theoretical time in the future. The baseball season is a long one, and it is difficult to maintain any hope of future championships when your team struggles for several consecutive years. We live in the now, and the baseball season is a long "now."

This is why the Marlins example is helpful - they almost exemplify "scenario A." Terrible teams, followed by a championship, followed by more terrible teams. The result has been awful attendance, even in the championship years, and attendance isn't the best measure of fan satisfaction (look at the Cubs!). Also, the bad stadium situation is a confounding factor in Marlins attendance.

But human nature says a lot too. You only vote for option A if you are guaranteed a championship sometime in the near future. But in real life, you don't get that guarantee. When you're mired in the midst of consecutive losing season #8, that does not seem like a possibility, and you imagine yourself living the Cubs fan's doomed existence.

I'd argue that this is worse for fandom morale than following a perenially successful team that bows out in the playoffs every year.

BW23 · Post by **BW23** » April 25 07, 8:46 am

The title is always the goal. I think having one of the most successful teams of the last 7 seasons shows what the team can be like in being competitive but not winning. But winning it all is still the goal.

As stated, they waited 24 years between rings.

Some want to see the team playing well again, and that's going to weigh in the decision. But I think that they will play well later this year. And I think they'll remain a competitive team every year.

Even the best teams will have a down year from time to time. However, if it ends up that this is the year the Cards have that down year, they'll still be introduced as the World Champion St. Louis Cardinals every time they go into an opposing stadium.

And that's just fine with me.

Leroy · Post by **Leroy** » April 25 07, 8:46 am

I dunno, I have seen examples of people that said, 'I can live with whatever this year since we just won', who are pretty reactionary when Albert pops up with runners in scoring position.

It is kinda amazing how that 'new wore off the crystal chandelier'.

Radio63 · Post by **Radio63** » April 25 07, 8:49 am

I have been following the Cardinals since 1963, so I've seen the good and the bad, the terrible finishes and the world championships. I'm pretty sure that in 1964, I was pretty excited about that World Series win.

But now, it's the seasons I remember, not the outcomes. Don't ask me how the Cardinals finished in each of the last ten years; I don't know. All I know is that year after year, it's been fun watching these teams.

My friend Neal, who is a Red Sox fan, says that winning the Series was the biggest let down of his life. Yeah, I can see that.

jim · Post by **jim** » April 25 07, 9:01 am

BW23 wrote:The title is always the goal. I think having one of the most successful teams of the last 7 seasons shows what the team can be like in being competitive but not winning. But winning it all is still the goal.

For who? Players, definitely. Fans, not so sure.

30 years ago they were one in the same. You won the pennant and went to the World Series. The current playoff format creates this scenario in my opinion.

skmsw · Post by **skmsw** » April 25 07, 9:06 am

omaha_red wrote:it's too easy for people to choose the competitve season now
that we've just won the world series.. i bet the vote would
be much different had we not won last year..

So, are you suggesting that we can never know which really matters more? Right now, they're sort of equidistant, kind've best perspective to know the relative costs and benefits. From here, we're moving towards or away from one or the other, and I think I read you to be suggesting that once you move away from the midpoint, there will always be bias and we can never know how we really feel.

Donnie Ebert · Post by **Donnie Ebert** » April 25 07, 9:07 am

What would be interesting is if the Cards stumbled their way into the playoffs again this year in much the same manner as they did last year, then turned it on in the playoffs and won it all again in 2007.

Would you then pick the 205 regular season wins of 2004 and 2005 or the two roller coaster rides of 2006 and 2007 that ended with the championship? I think the line would be a bit blurrier. Most would pick the two championships, I think.

I voted for a consistently consistent team, if only because 2004 was one of the greatest years of baseball I've ever seen. It was exciting to turn on the TV every night and watch the team play. That was 5 or 6 months of good baseball (after a slow start), wheras last year was a month or so of good baseball to start the season and a month of good baseball to end the season in the playoffs.

But remembering the playoffs last year now has me reconsidering my decision.

GatewayRedbirds.com

Interesting Lab Study

Would you rather a championship followed by years of poor ball, or perennial contention?