Mozeliak: "Some Changes" Coming For Cardinals, But Not A Rebuild

[MrCrowesGarden]

It would, in fact, rule if he loaded up on studs, cost be damned.

[go birds]

whats yall puke point on prospects/players for pitching?

i gotta believe gorman will be involved in any deal for a front line starter/#2.

[cardsfantx]

Just wanted to make a post talking [expletive] about Nola and Snell, that also trades Gorman. @cardsfantx is on board with this plan for sure.

[dmarx114]

whats yall puke point on prospects/players for pitching?

i gotta believe gorman will be involved in any deal for a front line starter/#2.

I think Gorman can be a good candidate to trade.

Middle infield so deep, especially with the new acquisitions.

[ThatGuy]

Just going to bump this post again, because it does a really good job illustrating the difference between this upcoming off season and previous off seasons.

Mo gets a well deserved mulligan for this season.

But if 2024 is anything like 2023, BDW won't have any choice but to fire Mo. So Mo's urgency has just skyrocketed big time. How he conducted previous off seasons is in now way how he will conduct this upcoming off season.

He will be very aggressive, more so than he's ever been. His job depends on it.

Mulligans are for people whose misfortune comes from bad luck. That's not what happened here. He barely skirted them in recent years, but Mo's bad habits (arrogance? laziness?) finally came home to roost this season in a very visible way.

So yeah, he's got some urgency, but his ills aren't because of simple bad luck.

[haltz]

There's an assumption that Mo can go out and sign a pitcher to a 6 year deal for $150M if he wanted to and I don't think that's the case.

I'm guessing he's about as aggressive as he's allowed to be in most years and decisions like that are presented to and either vetoed or greenlit by ownership. This is a guy who gave have Brett Cecil and Andrew Miller over $30M each. Maybe that was his limit without authorization which was reduced after those catastrophes.

Furthermore, a GM or POBO or whatever we're calling him now would be even less likely to be allowed to make long term commitments if they're on the hot seat. DeWitt isn't stupid and understands that motivations based on self-preservation might not lead to the most prudent investment so they'll have to be on the same page either way. I don't buy that Mo's personal sense of urgency will have any effect on decision making. If you want to say the franchise is motivated, that's fine.

[AdmiralKird]

Not meaning to single you out here, but I keep seeing people say Nola>Montgomery.

Why is that?

Not to speak on his behalf but I think it's just a default position that if you trade a guy at the deadline, he's less likely to re-sign with the former team. Not as much about who they think will be a better pitcher.

That’s fair and a similar one that I share.

Just that if Montgomery coming back was a realistic possibility, I’d prefer him over Nola and I think it’s close.

The tipping of the scale on a potential future Montgomery deal will depend on how he performs since leaving St Louis.

I'm alright with the trades, they got some stuff, but it was less of a fire sale and more of a garage sale.

[Magneto2.0]

whats yall puke point on prospects/players for pitching?

i gotta believe gorman will be involved in any deal for a front line starter/#2.

I would be willing to do this, but I also think they need to get another power bat if they do. Gorman takes out a major power threat that lengthens the lineup. He's replaceable, but he's also a nice have for cheap. The most logical thing would be to move Gorman for a young controllable pitcher. And it's gonna be hard to replace his production with another infielder so they'll have to obtain an outfield bat through free agency that can play everyday. Get what you can for O'Neill or Carlson (preferably O'Neill), even if it's not much.

[heyzeus]

A lot of talk about three rotation spots to fill. The Cardinals will more likely fill two and let a cluster of guys occupy the fifth spot. Until someone gets hurt and they’re short. We’ve seen this show before.

Replace "getting hurt" with "sick call" and this sounds like my workplace!

What we should do:

-Sign someone like Nola/Snell, trade for someone like Gilbert, then sign a 5th starter reclamation project type guy like Syndergaard to compete with our mediocre internal depth options (Liberatore, Rom, Thomas, Hudson, Graceffo, etc).

What we will do:
-Sign two 5th starter reclamation projects
-Claim we have tremendous internal depth (Liberatore, Rom, Thomas, Hudson, Graceffo, etc)
-call it an offseason

Not meaning to single you out here, but I keep seeing people say Nola>Montgomery.

Why is that? Nola has better overall career numbers, but not by much and they’re pretty similar altogether. Montgomery has been way better this year than Nola and arguably was better or similar to Nola last year depending on what #s you focus on (ERA, FIP, ERA+ etc.).

The only clear superior option to Montgomery is Snell. After that I think Montgomery and Nola are the next two best options followed by Giolito.

Nola isn't the only acceptable answer, nor is Snell. Nola has a longer track record of being an upper echelon pitcher...until this year. But if the season ended today, Nola will have posted an ERA+ under 100 in 2 of the last 3 seasons, which is troubling for a guy who's gonna seek (and get) over $100mil.

Would Montgomery be willing to come back to the team that just traded him? My guess is if the dollars are right, he would. But who knows.

[sighyoung]

Rich Hill's coming back next year!