Coronavirus

[GeddyWrox]

God, Sigh, that's all so f**king hard. Just gut wrenching.

[Radbird]

Great perspective, sigh. Appreciate you sharing the journey with us.

[IMADreamer]

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... re/619941/

Interesting read on long haulers.

[AdmiralKird]

Fauci said vaccine maker Pfizer has gotten its information to the US Food and Drug Administration, the information has been examined and "things look like they're ready to go [for the booster doses]."

But, he said Moderna might be a little bit behind Pfizer, and if it is, rather than seeing a simultaneous rollout of both products, it would be a sequential roll out by about a week or two. "I don't think that is a major issue there, but we would have liked to have seen it happen all together, simultaneously. But ultimately the plan will be implemented, as was put forth," Fauci said. The plan is contingent, first, on the companies submitting the appropriate data to the FDA, and second, getting an approval from the FDA and then a recommendation from the CDC's vaccine advisers, he said.

With the potential timing discrepancy, researchers are looking into whether different types of Covid-19 vaccines can be mixed and matched.
"We're lining up Pfizer against Pfizer, Pfizer for Moderna, and vice vera," Fauci told Weijia Jiang on CBS' "Face the Nation" on Sunday. "Hopefully, within a reasonable period of time, measured in a couple weeks, we will have that data." Fauci said hopefully it will work out that people who got Pfizer will boost with Pfizer, and people who got Moderna will boost with Moderna. "But we are doing the studies to determine if you can ... switch one with the other," he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/06/health/u ... index.html

I know there's been hope that maybe mixing the mRNA vaccines up might yield to increased resiliency against covid, and possibly longevity. It's good to know we'll get some data on that soon rather than wondering.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Is there any talk about modifying the mRNA to more closely resemble the mutations in the virus? Presumably, it would have to be a mutation solely in the spike protein that the mRNA is already coded to produce (I think specifically the S2 protein). But, that stuff is kind of over my head. Early on, I remember there being optimism that the vax could easily be modified to adjust for mutations, though, I'm not certain what regulatory requirements that would trip.

[cardinalkarp]

Is there any talk about modifying the mRNA to more closely resemble the mutations in the virus? Presumably, it would have to be a mutation solely in the spike protein that the mRNA is already coded to produce (I think specifically the S2 protein). But, that stuff is kind of over my head. Early on, I remember there being optimism that the vax could easily be modified to adjust for mutations, though, I'm not certain what regulatory requirements that would trip.

From what I recall Pfizer saying, that type of modification to the vaccine will come in the form of additional boosters. So if a mutation happens that is vaccine resistant then Pfizer will have to update the vaccine and it will be another round of boosters.

I think one can see where they are wanting to go w/ this.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Your body is either going to fight off the virus or it isn’t. You have a role in how your immune system functions. Namely, a vaccine will help. But there is a ton of other things you can do to help your immune system. We talked about them ad nauseum.

Regardless, if your immune system can’t fight off covid, even after a vaccination, and even in an environment that is using hepa filters where everyone is wearing a mask, sad as it is to say, you’re probably not long for this world because -as this anecdote suggests- there’s really no way to avoid the virus outside complete isolation.

This thinking pretty much influenced by decisions about flu vaccines for myself and my late mother, and ultimately the COVID-19 vaccines.

I do have a colleague who has had a side effect from the COVID-19 vaccine: he developed pronounced tinnitus almost immediately, and now needs to wear earphones when not teaching to reduce the noise. Hopefully, that effect will go away eventually.

Still, since he and his wife both teach, and with young children at home, and since he travels to Romania to deal with his late mother's legal affairs in a region with a high death rate from the coronavirus, he needed to get it.

Speaking only for myself, I've needed to be vaccinated (for the flu and COVID-19) for a variety of reasons. I regularly work in public settings with dozens of people in the same room, and most surfaces (from door knobs to light switches to urinal flush levers) have been handled by dozens, if not hundreds, of people every day. My windows don't open to allow the fresh circulation of air because my university fears increased heating costs if they're left open during the winter. I volunteer in ways that expose me to the public periodically. My wife and I are in our late 50's--in good health, but at an increased risk for adverse effects from the coronavirus.

When my mother was alive, I had to make many of the same vaccination calculations because she sometimes had minor reactions to flu shots, particularly, alarming swelling around the injection site.

So for a few years, I didn't have her vaccinated, although I needed to be vaccinated for her protection. And when she developed COPD, I ensured that she was vaccinated, too, and she had no problems. I didn't expect complete immunity, but just hoped for enough protection to stave off pneumonia, which would have killed her.

And yes, by the end of her life, she had so many co-morbidities that her co-morbidities had co-morbidities, but I knew that if she caught COVID-19 that she would die, and she did die from it. I didn't see her for nine months until days before she died. That isolation likely extended her life for that period of time, but it was probably a miserable existence because of her dementia and confusion.

So I do think we all make those calculations based on relative risk to ourselves and others. For my life, I needed to be vaccinated.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, and I am sorry for the loss of your mother as well as the surrounding circumstances. You're a great son and an amazing example of how to handle loved ones with respect and love as they age.

It's difficult to talk about the metadata or large scale picture without sounding callous and dehumanizing. What I wrote certainly had the potential to come off that way. Thank you for understanding the position I had when writing it and expanding on the thought process you went through.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Is there any talk about modifying the mRNA to more closely resemble the mutations in the virus? Presumably, it would have to be a mutation solely in the spike protein that the mRNA is already coded to produce (I think specifically the S2 protein). But, that stuff is kind of over my head. Early on, I remember there being optimism that the vax could easily be modified to adjust for mutations, though, I'm not certain what regulatory requirements that would trip.

From what I recall Pfizer saying, that type of modification to the vaccine will come in the form of additional boosters. So if a mutation happens that is vaccine resistant then Pfizer will have to update the vaccine and it will be another round of boosters.

I think one can see where they are wanting to go w/ this.

I know you feel the pharmaceutical companies are going to want to turn this into an annual shot due to the financial windfall they'd receive. Which is a valid concern.

At the same time, it may just be that the form of vaccination (mRNA) targeting one specific protein of the virus aligns itself with booster shots in the near future (or possibly indefinitely, no one really knows). If a booster is needed to introduce the mutation to the protein, everything I understand (take it fwiw) makes that approach seem completely logical.

Did Pfizer/Moderna/AZ know this would happen and more doses would be needed as the virus mutated and that's why they chose the path they chose? You can make a pretty compelling argument that is not the case. The mRNA route was the quickest to market and provides more protection than the traditional vaccines (like J&J). In general, they're also a remarkable scientific accomplishment, using the body to produce the protein/antigen is nothing short of extraordinary. That said, you could also make a compelling argument they did look ahead and figure by targeting one specific protein, they could take advantage of mutations that would require additional shots.

In the end, I don't think it much matters if they knew or not, the vaccines offer the best protection against the virus currently for those that want protection against the virus.

I am still curious as to what the approval process for those revised vaccines look like; however, and what leeway do they have to modify the vax (like they do with the flu vax) before it requires a full approval process with all three stages again.

[heyzeus]

Man sigh; that’s so tough to read and I’m so sorry about that…

I wonder, in your opinion, is the 9 month isolation that was miserable, better by extending it? Or would no isolation, and she could’ve gotten it and died from it after just a month or so, but no isolation have been better?

That’s what I’m wondering, and struggle with, for our kids. Just look at this thread. If this stuff is getting passed onto our younger generation, we’re basically telling them, and letting them live in a life of constant fear and isolation.

I just wonder, is that worse than COVID? Once this passes (and it will pass), will an entire generation base their lives around fear?

I don't want to derail this politically too much, but I think I'd feel this way if I was a kid non-stop, and justifiably so. We watched kindergarteners get mowed down at school and the owners of the country decided it was fine.

I think it's all related.

I'll answer the mom part first: in hindsight, it might have been better if I'd been able to see her. I certainly understand the decision for nursing homes to go into lockdown. Those places really were disease tinder boxes, and once the coronavirus spread through my mother's facility, everybody (staff and patients) got sick.

My mother had almost died the previous December--at first, it seemed that it was related to elevated sodium levels, but eventually it was clear that she was having a series of mini-strokes, and we already knew that she had breast cancer slowly spreading in her chest. She only had a few months left. I was surprised that she didn't catch COVID-19 until late October. She was twice taken to hospitals in 2020, and each time I was surprised that she was fine.

If my mother had been more lucid and able to pick up a phone to talk, much less dial out, things would have been better, but she just couldn't. I just couldn't conveniently communicate with her.

It was sad because she remembered me long after her memory unraveled. I visited every other day for nine years except for short vacations, did her laundry, and brought her candy and an occasional White Castle slider even after she'd forgotten where she was,what year it was, or even that she'd been married. But her core personality remained intact, and she was a delight to visit. She had a wicked, dry sense of humor, was devilishly funny, and her memory of music remained to the end. She knew every tempo change in a Count Basie song, all seven verses of a Methodist hymn--it was all there.

I tried to be as reliable as clockwork to someone who constantly worried if she was safe and if family knew where she was. Women of her generation growing up in the Depression were trained to let family know where they were. She was also a control freak and pack rat, and I also learned from a dentist that she was breaking her teeth from grinding them from worry.

Evidently, she would call out for me when she was confused, so it was a terrible loss to her to not see me anymore, and I felt awful about it. Still, her memory loss may have helped in other ways: in her final year, if I stepped out of her room and came right back, she was so happy because it was if I had just arrived. But she needed family to help her and even advocate for her, and I couldn't once she was quarantined.

The nursing home tried to arrange video calls, but it was all but impossible to schedule one. And I understood: they were understaffed with tremendous turnover, with staff often out because they were ill.

But when I last saw her, she didn't know who I was after I spent nine years reassuring her that family was near and would keep her safe. It was profoundly sad.

-----

As for the present generation, I guess it's just culturally different. You want people to wind up independent, confident, and decent human beings, regardless of upbringing, and people still can. But my children belong to a generation that's grown up with helmets and play dates and shooting drills. They've been taught to be prudent--at times, it's smart, and at times it's suffocating and stunting. At the same time, I didn't knock them into next week the way my parents did with me, and I should have died 30 different times from stupid things I and my friends did, from playing with fire to riding with drunk drivers to our own risky bike stunts and forays into strange neighborhoods.

I will say that I was proud that my son could make his way in China and Taiwan without much help from me, and I never tried to be a helicopter parent, either.

It's one reason I wanted my daughter to go off to college. And yes, I do worry about roofies and date rape, and whether some people will take her seriously because she's five feet tall, Black, and female. But I'm also hopeful that she can adjust and thrive in an often evil world, and she needs to be given the chance to grow.

Sorry to derail the discussion too much. I guess that was as much an emotional unburdening as anything, but it's been a difficult year-and-a-half.

First of all, thanks for sharing your experience, because I think at the very least I, personally, learn from what you're saying. My dad passed away from his stomach chancer just before Thanksgiving last year, and I hadn't seen him in the 9 prior months due to the fear of spreading Covid either to him as he went through another round of chemo, or to my mom who was his sole caregiver. It's an impossible question to live with, but live with it I must: would it have been better to travel to St Louis regularly during those 9 months, even with the risks of infection, to spend that last time with him? To be quite honest, it's a question that fills me with grief every time I think about it. It's also unanswerable.

@cardsfantx , you ask another question that keeps me greatly occupied: What does this all mean for the kids? Mine are 6 and 9, still pretty small but school age. For the 6 year old, this pandemic is now 1/3 of her life. Couple that with the fact that nobody really remembers their first two years, and it's half of her conscious existence. We do our best not to live in fear. We wear masks, but we go out. We don't dine in restaurants, but we will sit on a patio at places that are casual, outdoorsy, and spread out. We have traveled, usually by car, but to more remote destinations where we can ride bikes or swim or hike in nature. We're doing our best to enjoy life.

But, we haven't done a ton of seeing friends, or family. We haven't been to a birthday party in 18 months, or had friends over inside our house. They missed almost an entire year of in-person school. Little kids are always listening (we call them our little Alexas), so they no doubt hear Mrs Zeus and I talking in hushed tones about how the hospitals in Austin have 0 ICU beds, or about someone who died or is in the hospital with "it." They know Covid is serious. They trust us to try to keep them safe, and they seem genuinely happy. But it would be naive for me to assume everything's fine.

[AdmiralKird]

Is there any talk about modifying the mRNA to more closely resemble the mutations in the virus? Presumably, it would have to be a mutation solely in the spike protein that the mRNA is already coded to produce (I think specifically the S2 protein). But, that stuff is kind of over my head. Early on, I remember there being optimism that the vax could easily be modified to adjust for mutations, though, I'm not certain what regulatory requirements that would trip.

From what I recall Pfizer saying, that type of modification to the vaccine will come in the form of additional boosters. So if a mutation happens that is vaccine resistant then Pfizer will have to update the vaccine and it will be another round of boosters.

I think one can see where they are wanting to go w/ this.

Provide first world medical care?

I would happily pay $30 for a shot that would practically guarantee me from (1) from having to go into the hospital for a month from a ravaging disease during a pandemic, (2) the worst of symptoms should I contract it, (3) transmitting that disease to others, (4) logjammin' the hospital system. I would certainly rather pony up $30 now than potentially have to spend $12,000 per night to stay in an ICU with covid. Compared to my existing health insurance, homeowners insurance, car insurance - that's a steal.