Coronavirus

[cardinalkarp]

What’s wrong with those numbers?

Im reading that as of the 6,587 Covid-19 breakthrough cases as of July 26, 6,239 required hospitalizations and out of those 6,587 there were 1,263 deaths? That doesn’t seem off to you?

On top of that, the article had been updated on 8/2….here’s another article from MSN published 2 hours ago, but includes data from 8/8 from both California and Massachusetts on their breakthrough cases….

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... ar-AANsHhB

And here’s data from the article….

As of Aug. 8, 0.3% of Californians—or 57,491 fully vaccinated people out of 21.6 million full vaccinated individuals—have tested positive for the virus. Massachusetts last week said that 0.2% people in the state—or 9,969 people out of the 4.3 million who have been fully vaccinated—have reported breakthrough infections, according to media reports. About 450 of those individuals were hospitalized, and 105 people died.

So the CDC, as of 8/2 is reporting 6,587 breakthrough cases, yet California and Massachusetts alone is reporting close to 68,000 as of 8/8.


Edit: While I still do question the amount of breakthrough cases resulting in death, I wasn’t questioning the math on that. I’m questioning the fact that CNN/CDC we’re basically saying that nearly EVERY breakthrough case resulted in a hospitalization…or that’s how that sentence reads to me.

[GeddyWrox]

I have not even bothered to read that because that is clearly not accurate.

[GeddyWrox]

I will also add that CNN is not my first, second, third or even twelfth go to source for any real in depth news. Nor do I think it is AWs, Gkeenans, ADents, JoeS's or anyone else who is trying to present cases for getting vaxxed. We've all drawn from dozens of more scientific journals, and the fact that you throw CNN out as some catch all argument against the mountain of evidence that vaccinations are highly effective (but not a guarantee) is insulting and laughable.

[haltz]

The CDC has only been tracking breakthrough cases that lead to death or hospitalization since May 1st. The reasoning they give makes a certain amount of sense but obviously this is a center cut fastball if you don't trust them in the first place.

[cardinalkarp]

Their pulling numbers for the CDC for crying out loud….so you agree, the CDC’s numbers are [expletive].

So, with that being said….you aren’t trusting anything their saying either correct?

And if that’s the case, where do you think the doctors and other governing bodies information is coming from if not the CDC.

[cardinalkarp]

The CDC has only been tracking breakthrough cases that lead to death or hospitalization since May 1st. The reasoning they give makes a certain amount of sense but obviously this is a center cut fastball if you don't trust them in the first place.

CDC numbers is how policy is being enacted, so if you guys seem to be in agreement that their data is faulty/incomplete/crap, one could maintain that the policy being dictated are those same things?

[ghostrunner]

I looked up a bunch of articles with those numbers. What I see primarily is some confusion about what numbers the CDC is reporting. Not sure I understand the distinction between 6587 and 6239, but it appears the 6587 are already breakthrough cases that led to hospitalizations or deaths. I think that may include doctor’s office diagnoses but I’m not sure. That gets thinned to actual hospitalizations. That’s my guess at least. So this isn’t a count of all breakthrough cases, which the CDC says are likely underreported. That’s not a big leap since most Covid cases in general are probably underreported.

I wouldn’t characterize that data as faulty, just incomplete.

[ghostrunner]

This is a current chart from the CDC with a similar discrepancy. I’m guessing there’s something similar going on.

[SHOW]

Thinking about it some more, the discrepancy is probably just deaths that were hospitalized first.

[G. Keenan]

Anyone claiming the vaccines are a waste of time is not dealing in reality. Slice and dice the data however you want and the conclusion is the same, the vaccines work well at preventing serious illness and death. We want that, yes? The vaccines also make you less likely to get infected in the first place. We want that, yes? And while vaccinated people can still spread the virus more than we first knew, it's to a lesser degree. We want that too, yes?

Are they 100% effective? No. But that doesn't change the conclusions, based on empirical evidence, that vaccines = good. The rate of side effects does not change that conclusion either.

You can debate vaccine mandates. Are they legal? Even if legal, are they ethical and/or do they fit in our with our civic traditions? That is a legit legal and philosophical question. But there just is no case to be made that it doesn't matter whether or not we get as many people vaccinated as possible. It does matter. More people vaccinated = less illness, less death, pandemic over sooner.

So by all means press the case that vaccine mandates are un-American. But this pivot to arguing they are not worthwhile in the first place is not supported by the science.

[cardinalkarp]

Which is what my entire argument has been based on….again, I’ve always supported that vaccines make sense for ALOT of people in the United States given the health of the country. And I’ve never said that the vaccines don’t work at mitigating serious symptoms and death.

Although, I would contest that they aren’t even close to working as well as what they had hoped.

The main issue I have is the blaming of the unvaccinated for the continuation of the virus, it’s just not based in reality IMO. And again, my opinion is that no matter how hard they want to try they will not be able to vaccinate their way out of this, so mandating vaccines is a terrible approach….and again in my opinion is wrong in so many ways.

As un-American as it seems to me, removing the unvaccinated from society seems to be the plan in many cities around the country. While I have a major problem with that, I’m willing to forgo certain things (indoor dining, sporting events, etc), but when it comes to the necessities of life…..jobs, grocery stores, etc that’s where it becomes concerning.