Coronavirus

[G. Keenan]

So if vaccines work even against the DELTA THE DELTA THE DELTA, and keep people from dying and getting really sick, cool.
Then why are vaccinated people worried about the unvaccinated heathens? The one in 10,000 shot that you could get sick and die even though you were vaccinated? Aren't unvaccinated people just running around infecting or getting the virus from other unvaccinated people? I'm vaccinated now but did it simply for convenience, my guess is schools in which I spend most of my time in the fall might require vaccinations.

I don't care anymore about what Fauci said about masks. Perhaps he is some great humanitarian for saving hospital from shortages. But what shortage did he save by saying it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't something to worry about? Toilet paper? We had that shortage anyway.

Masks, masks, masks. I wore a mask. All the time. My wife did too. She works in a hospital, so all the time. We got COVID. Whoa. How did that happen? Instead of telling us how many unvaccinated people died, how about telling us how many of the 600,000 dead Americans were anti mask?

I just really got sick with the endless, 'I stand with Fauci' everywhere. Basically, he wasn't Trump and that's what people love about him. Big deal. Not a high bar.

And as far as the lab or the bat or whatever, I don't think I'm a crackpot because I don't believe a word coming out of China.

I'm struggling to understand what point you are trying to make. It's kind of a scattershot contrarianism that doesn't really mean anything.

[Leroy]

Vaxxed folks are (or should be) worried about the unvaxxed because:
- The unvaxxed are still spreading the virus like crazy (see: Arkansas and Missouri) and this thing is mutating. The more times it mutates, the more of a chance our protection becomes limited (which might already be happening with Delta)
- Children under 12 cannot get the vaccine yet and are a lot more vulnerable to Delta than the earlier strains
- We are headed towards another surge late summer, early fall. This will probably be more localized to regions with lower vax rates, but still will be a crisis.

So if that is the case, why aren't we locking down now?

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Vaxxed folks are (or should be) worried about the unvaxxed because:
- The unvaxxed are still spreading the virus like crazy (see: Arkansas and Missouri) and this thing is mutating. The more times it mutates, the more of a chance our protection becomes limited (which might already be happening with Delta)
- Children under 12 cannot get the vaccine yet and are a lot more vulnerable to Delta than the earlier strains
- We are headed towards another surge late summer, early fall. This will probably be more localized to regions with lower vax rates, but still will be a crisis.

So if that is the case, why aren't we locking down now?

Because people are tired of it (I hope.)
Get the damned shots.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

There's probably a couple different layers here, I think.

There's a legit concern about spread of the virus. Coming from a 10 mile up view, less virus is good, more virus is bad. And, there's a pretty obvious inverse correlation between vaccines and virus. So, there's that. The worry about variants and children and hospitals and risk even to vaxxed people is all warranted to certain levels.

There's also costs associated with the virus both directly and indirectly. So, I'd add that to the list of concerns.

But, going even broader and what some people have touched on - and this is painting with a broad brush which is always dangerous so take it with the broad stroke its intended as not as a direct comment to anyone - there's a growing portion of the citizenry that refuses to trust the field of science, in general. And, because information - true or false - is so easily shared, the ability to find information fitting a narrative is commonplace. Conversely, it is better when people use new information to challenge their current beliefs.

The flat earth movement is an easy example of this.*** Basic thought, thousands of years ago, was that the earth was flat because we didn't have the ability to know better. Then in the early BC years iirc, astronomers figured out it was round and calc'd the circumference. The round earth theory continued to be proven correct and then a thousand years later or so, people started sailing around the world, further cementing the fact the earth was round (spherical). Then Newton discovered gravity all but proving a round earth. We shot people and cameras up into space that clearly show it is round. We have satellites using the earth's gravity to constantly circle the planet. Flight paths clearly follow paths accounting for the earths curvature and not a flat earth. You can take a flight over the south pole. Etc etc etc. Etc. And, one more for good measure. Etc. I'm not an expert in this field, but the earths shape is well established.
As knowledge, understanding, and technology have advanced, the earth has been proven round time and time and time and time again. Yet, today we have more people believing the earth is flat than ever before? Only 2/3 of millenials believe the earth is round. [expletive] idiots. But, why? I think that's the angst so many people have.

***And, let me be clear. There is no correlation between flat earthers and people against the vaccine. There is no comparison among the two because, [expletive], the FDA hasn't even fully approved the vaccine where as we have thousands of years of data and scientific observation proving the shape of the earth. The point of this isn't to give an apples to apples comparison. It's just to highlight there are people decidedly willing to ignore scientific observation/data/math/physics/etc in favor of some fantastic conspiracy that NASA is lying to get money or something.

Facts are facts, until someone makes a youtube video saying a fact is wrong then it becomes a fact that no one believes. And, it's a shame.

But, why is there such hesitancy to accept science? I don't get it.

[G. Keenan]

But, why is there such hesitancy to accept science? I don't get it.

Great post, AW. Similar to flat Earthers, you have those that don't believe in evolution even despite all the empirical, testable, scientific evidence showing that natural selection is real. Why don't they believe it? Because it challenges a preexisting conception they have about the nature of man and it's psychologically more comfortable to discard it in favor of creationism. But the thing about science is that science is not a belief. Science is a process, a method, a kind of intellectual technology through which we can arrive at the truth and establish facts about the natural world. As such, science has a pesky way of overcoming superstition. So what is a creationist to do? How does one keep the flock mentally encircled? You teach the controversy.

This has proven to be a very effective psychological tactic. When you want to challenge some scientific consensus but you don't actually have any data or evidence or proof you look for any crack or disagreement you can use as a wedge into people's brains. If you can create the perception that some scientific topic is up for debate and there is a controversy around the truth or what is known you can discredit the legit scientific consensus. This is what has been done with climate change and a number of other issues that "the right" wants to resist for one reason or another.

Now, a lot of science is unsettled. It's new. The experimental data isn't sufficient yet to draw conclusions. The scientists themselves admit they are still learning and revising advice as new info is processed. Such is the case with Covid. Trump and his minions in media and politics staked their position way back in January 2020 -- Covid 19 was no big deal, couple cases, under control, will be gone on its own any day now. And that pretty much never changed, so when that position looked increasingly ludicrous as the months went by, what to do? How to get the heat off themselves and shift blame elsewhere? Invent a controversy and focus people's attention on the non-controversy you have just invented. Fauci was against masks before he was for them, what's with that? Can he be trusted? If he can't be trusted, can any US government scientist be trusted? Let's just not do anything and the let the chips fall where they may. Then some random person whose work is not peer reviewed will self-publish something questioning the safety of vaccines. This will create another controversy. Rather than delve into the substance at hand, media will simply discuss the existence of the controversy because that's more fun and easier for the non-scientists who host cable shows to do, and their viewers will come away confused, concluding that we can't really ever know anything for sure so why even bother to try? If you're someone who already reflexively distrusts "authority," one authority (the Trump admin) can shift attention and blame onto another authority (Fauci, state governors, mayors, public health departments) and misdirect public attention so as to continue benefiting from the status quo and avoid accountability.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Arkansas Dept of Health reported exactly 1,000 new cases yesterday. For reference, Arkansas - like most states - saw a pretty dramatic surge in the winter topping out around ~3K daily new cases in January. Then, there was a slow decline after the peak. Then, there was a terrific snow storm dropping over a foot of snow (the one that caused damage to the energy grid in TX) in February and after that there was a precipitous decline in cases and about that time the vaccines became widely available. As such, Arkansas hadn't seen 1k+ new cases since before the snow storm in February.

[GeddyWrox]

[Fat_Bulldog]

People - get vaccinated. This is dumb.

[Leroy]

So it came up because of the Olympics, but the vax rate in Japan:
1 dose - 26%
2 doses - 15%
How can this even be possible?

[Jocephus]

yeah it's odd. i read today the olympics wont have fans 'cause of the recent surge. the olympics could end up being a giant cluster...well, more so.