Former Cardinals Watch

[Fat_Bulldog]

While we're sharing stats...

Bader's OPS is .712
Arozarena's OPS is .749
Wisdom's OPS is 1.371
Garcia's OPS is .853
O'Neills OPS is .974

[sighyoung]

Arozarena, Garcia, Wisdom...

Are the Cardinals bad at talent evaluation?

Well, the Cardinals saw potential in them, but bringing it out is another thing.

Arozarena seems like talent given up to get talent (Liberatore), given their surplus of outfielders at the time, but even the Rays will admit that they were surprised by the performance they got last year. This year's performance, so far, may be what to expect from him going forward, and keeping O'Neill is finally paying dividends for the Cardinals, who deserve credit here.

A change of scenery likely helped Garcia and Wisdom, and they deserve credit for making adjustments to salvage their careers. Both bounced around other organizations, so others besides the Cardinals have tried to work with them. Who knows if they'll remain this hot--Wisdom likely won't. Maybe he's made enough adjustments to stick on a major-league roster, though.

[heyzeus]

Arozarena, Garcia, Wisdom...

Are the Cardinals bad at talent evaluation?

Arozarena has a .750 OPS, Garcia was DFA by the Rangers in February, and Patrick Wisdom is Patrick Wisdom.

Arozarena, Garcia, Wisdom...

Are the Cardinals bad at talent evaluation?

Arozarena has a .750 OPS, Garcia was DFA by the Rangers in February, and Patrick Wisdom is Patrick Wisdom.

You're right. Thank you for helping me see things the right way. Have a blessed day!

There's plenty to consider on the talent evaluation side. The Pham trade. Voit. The talent package we gave up for Goldschmidt, even knowing quite well from AP what the aging curve is for post-30 slugging first baseman. The talent package we gave up for two so-so years of Ozuna. The extension to Carpenter and Mikolas.

I'll agree that Wisdom is a AAAA guy (kudos on his hot week), and Arozarena's true talent level probably looks more like his 2021 then the amazing playoff run of last year. But I'm with you on wondering about some of the talent evaluation.

[Popeye_Card]

It may not be talent evaluation. It may be that we are poor at unlocking the talent we have. Our reservoir of pixie dust appears to be very dry.

[Big Amoco Sign]

Carson Kelly is looking like a plus return on the Goldy trade for Arizona. FWIW.

Top 5-7 catcher while we have a former star's age cliff years. Not bad.

[heyzeus]

Arozarena for Liberatore may eventually remind us a lot of O'Neill for Marco Gonzalez. Like @Sighyoung said, talent for talent. At this point I'm happy to be on the O'Neill side of that trade, but there were a few years where it looked like a problem.

[Big Amoco Sign]

Arozarena, Garcia, Wisdom...

Are the Cardinals bad at talent evaluation?

Arozarena has a .750 OPS, Garcia was DFA by the Rangers in February, and Patrick Wisdom is Patrick Wisdom.

I'm okay with Arozarena trade since Liberatore seems like a legit stud.

But Randy is a 116 wRC+ this year on starter time. And a 130 wRC+ (that's not even including hot playoff run) since the trade. Everyone's OPS is down. You have to normalize to the league. Have you seen Lindor or Goldy this year? Seems a bit dismissive of Randy's value just saying the OPS and calling it good. Randy is the 18th best OF in baseball for qualified players.

Garcia might be good a couple of years. Wisdom will crater. The "talent evaluation" argument comes more into play with the awful starters and lack of hits on draft picks.

[InvincibleCakeEater]

Arozarena, Garcia, Wisdom...

Are the Cardinals bad at talent evaluation?

Arozarena has a .750 OPS, Garcia was DFA by the Rangers in February, and Patrick Wisdom is Patrick Wisdom.

I'm okay with Arozarena trade since Liberatore seems like a legit stud.

But Randy is a 116 wRC+ this year on starter time. And a 130 wRC+ (that's not even including hot playoff run) since the trade. Everyone's OPS is down. You have to normalize to the league. Have you seen Lindor or Goldy this year? Seems a bit dismissive of Randy's value just saying the OPS and calling it good. Randy is the 18th best OF in baseball for qualified players.

Garcia might be good a couple of years. Wisdom will crater. The "talent evaluation" argument comes more into play with the awful starters and lack of hits on draft picks.

I wasn’t saying that to be dismissive of Randy. Just that he’s not an insane superstar like people were making him out to be last year.

Every team in the league struck out on Garcia this February, but he’s really not much of a player going forward. Maybe an Adam Duvall with better defense and speed. His hot start is great and all, but I’d wager at the end of the year his OPS+ is closer to 100 than 120.

Wisdom sucks, but he had a nice week.

[Fat_Bulldog]

Arozarena, Garcia, Wisdom...

Are the Cardinals bad at talent evaluation?

Arozarena has a .750 OPS, Garcia was DFA by the Rangers in February, and Patrick Wisdom is Patrick Wisdom.

I'm okay with Arozarena trade since Liberatore seems like a legit stud.

But Randy is a 116 wRC+ this year on starter time. And a 130 wRC+ (that's not even including hot playoff run) since the trade. Everyone's OPS is down. You have to normalize to the league. Have you seen Lindor or Goldy this year? Seems a bit dismissive of Randy's value just saying the OPS and calling it good. Randy is the 18th best OF in baseball for qualified players.

Garcia might be good a couple of years. Wisdom will crater. The "talent evaluation" argument comes more into play with the awful starters and lack of hits on draft picks.

I wasn’t saying that to be dismissive of Randy. Just that he’s not an insane superstar like people were making him out to be last year.

Every team in the league struck out on Garcia this February, but he’s really not much of a player going forward. Maybe an Adam Duvall with better defense and speed. His hot start is great and all, but I’d wager at the end of the year his OPS+ is closer to 100 than 120.

Wisdom sucks, but he had a nice week.

Take my examples out of the equation.

Should the talent evaluation and development of the Cardinals organization be in question?

[InvincibleCakeEater]

That’s a difficult question.

Obviously the development is great. If it weren’t, the question never would have been posed.

6 months ago everyone was saying we should have traded O’Neill instead of Arozarena. I imagine in 6 months nobody is going to give a [expletive] about Wisdom’s hot week or Garcia’s hot month. If Liberatore turns out good the evaluators suddenly look much better.