Coronavirus

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

my university got a "write up" from the NYT on our covid response, etc. kinda cool

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/heal ... abeti.html

Real cool!

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Okay, last thing, then I'll be done talking about the vaccination effort for a while, maybe.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... .full-text

A study out of the netherlands, er, somewhere other than the US that is non-peer reviewed was published a few days ago stating that the innate arm of the immune system is weakened in parts by the mRNA vaccine. We talked a bunch about innate vs adaptive immune arms of the immune system over the past year with both having vital roles to play. I have no idea what this means, and/or how long lasting such changes would be. I've also heard but don't have a study to quote that the overall immune system works better after mRNA vaccines...so who knows.

Summary
The mRNA-based BNT162b2 vaccine from Pfizer/BioNTech was the first registered COVID-19 vaccine and has been shown to be up to 95% effective in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections. Little is known about the broad effects of the new class of mRNA vaccines, especially whether they have combined effects on innate and adaptive immune responses. Here we confirmed that BNT162b2 vaccination of healthy individuals induced effective humoral and cellular immunity against several SARS-CoV-2 variants. Interestingly, however, the BNT162b2 vaccine also modulated the production of inflammatory cytokines by innate immune cells upon stimulation with both specific (SARS-CoV-2) and non-specific (viral, fungal and bacterial) stimuli. The response of innate immune cells to TLR4 and TLR7/8 ligands was lower after BNT162b2 vaccination, while fungi-induced cytokine responses were stronger. In conclusion, the mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine induces complex functional reprogramming of innate immune responses, which should be considered in the development and use of this new class of vaccines.

I know I said last post, but I noticed one of the youtube doctors I got a lot of information from did a 45 minute talk on this study. Link below if you want to watch it, I didn't understand a lot of it but the tl;dw: is meh, there's no real baseline for the innate arm, so we don't know how much it is effected. Reduced innate arm (especially cytokine) activity could be helpful in dealing specifically with Covid (reduced inflammation/cytokine storm). And, the immune system is constantly 'reprogrammed' so all in all it's not a big deal though I still don't understand nearly all of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcl0B9FdSf8

I guess, I'll just sum it up by saying this. I agree with GK's sentiment to respect most everyone's views on this. Even if the above study is nbd/wrong/or something else, it is yet another example of how complex the human body is. The original studies to prove the vaccine efficacy didn't look at it or at least didn't publish any data concerning it. If it's nbd, it's simply by luck.

I saw this graph way back when and think it's probably a good time to post it again because when I think I absolutely know something, I tend to fall on the lefternmost peak. For all the times I've done that in the past, I apologize.

[mikechamp]

If I understand it correclty, the VAERS system was put in place for all vaccine manufacturers of all vaccines to protect them from numerous and in many cases frivolous lawsuits. Next of kin can still receive payments, not sure if its from the manufacturers or from the federal govt, but this system was put in place because prior to it, vaccine manufacturers were drowning in lawsuits and this was a way to short circuit the whole process and free them of all the red tape, from my very limited understanding.

I think you are referring to the downside of the PREP Act.

You can’t sue Pfizer or Moderna if you have severe Covid vaccine side effects. The government likely won't compensate you for damages either

If you experience severe side effects after getting a Covid vaccine, lawyers tell CNBC there is basically no one to blame in a U.S. court of law.

The federal government has granted companies like Pfizer and Moderna immunity from liability if something unintentionally goes wrong with their vaccines.

"It is very rare for a blanket immunity law to be passed," said Rogge Dunn, a Dallas labor and employment attorney. "Pharmaceutical companies typically aren't offered much liability protection under the law."

You also can't sue the Food and Drug Administration for authorizing a vaccine for emergency use, nor can you hold your employer accountable if they mandate inoculation as a condition of employment.

Congress created a fund specifically to help cover lost wages and out-of-pocket medical expenses for people who have been irreparably harmed by a "covered countermeasure," such as a vaccine. But it is difficult to use and rarely pays. Attorneys say it has compensated less than 6% of the claims filed in the last decade.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-v ... wsuit.html

[cardsfantx]

So, how would could the govt ever really enforce a vaccine passport, if it comes to that, if no one has any recourse to sue/hold someone accountable for a vaccine they didn’t want to get in the first place?

[G. Keenan]

So, how would could the govt ever really enforce a vaccine passport, if it comes to that, if no one has any recourse to sue/hold someone accountable for a vaccine they didn’t want to get in the first place?

Yeah, it doesn't seem like the vaccine passport idea is going anywhere.

[Arthur Dent]

Yeah, the big hammer plans won’t work in our society, but I do think people are underestimating the degree to which people who talk like they are pretty against getting it will end up doing it anyway just like AW’s anecdote about the travel rules. Right now, the framework is one of individual assessment and individual choice so people approach it that way, like a consumer choice, but if it is quasi required to do various things like get on a plane or go to school, at least without having to go to a bunch of trouble, more people will do it as the default path of least resistance rather than viewing it as like an artisanal personal lifestyle choice. You’ll still have plenty of people who have a stronger attachment to the idea of avoiding it, but I don’t think the ceiling here is ultra hard.

Personally, in addition to the obvious benefits, I identify with what Richie was saying about what a great achievement vaccines are. We got from a newly discovered disease to a super effective preventive medicine in a year—an incredible tribute to human achievement that I am thrilled to be a part of. That it is delivered by the often scummy pharma industry shouldn’t let you lose sight of big picture that we’ve figured out tools to unlock the secrets of one of mankind’s greatest enemies and turn it into mass health technology in almost no time. Hell yeah.

[G. Keenan]

Personally, in addition to the obvious benefits, I identify with what Richie was saying about what a great achievement vaccines are. We got from a newly discovered disease to a super effective preventive medicine in a year—an incredible tribute to human achievement that I am thrilled to be a part of. That it is delivered by the often scummy pharma industry shouldn’t let you lose sight of big picture that we’ve figured out tools to unlock the secrets of one of mankind’s greatest enemies and turn it into mass health technology in almost no time. Hell yeah.

This is a great point that I think also speaks to the larger trend we've seen in the recent past towards generalized vaccine skepticism apart from these specific coronavirus vaccines. Vaccines have become a victim of their own success. They, along with other medical inventions like antibiotics, have been so hugely successful at preventing and curing disease that what was once an ever-present threat is no longer part of most Americans' lived experience. People now have the luxury of treating vaccines as any other consumer product, and indeed can cast doubt on them under the umbrella of wellness culture because most people still utilize them and as yet a critical mass of the population hasn't rejected them, so society overall hasn't suffered the full negative consequences that come with that.

I heard a cool interview on this with the creator of a documentary series on the topic: Extra Life, a Short History of Living Longer

He points out how routine it used to be to die from what today would be super rare. You'd get a scrape gardening, and 3 days later you'd be dead from a staph infection. Thousands of people used to die every year from unpasteurized milk, which was a fascinating story. Smallpox ravaged the globe for centuries before vaccines eliminated the virus. And so on.

The pasteurized milk story was particularly interesting because the technique was invented in like 1864, but it took decades for the American public to come around to accepting it. Ultimately it was not doctors and scientists who persuaded the public to take it up, but business leaders and other do-gooders. The founder of Macy's made it his personal crusade to convince New Yorkers to start drinking pasteurized milk. And still, the US didn't start legally requiring it until something like 1947, almost 100 years after its invention.

[Michael]

My gym in Chicago lifted their mask mandate.

[sighyoung]

My gym in Chicago lifted their mask mandate.

My university just did, too.

[heyzeus]

NYT article today describing Covid in US as being in "exponential decay."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/brie ... tions.html