Coronavirus

[InvincibleCakeEater]

At the risk of sounding crass... At this point anyone choosing not to get a vaccine is just nominating themselves for a Darwin award. I'm still uncomfortable in crowded indoor spaces and I'll abide by whatever mask rules businesses put up, but I'm not worrying about the unvaxxed anymore. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I think that’s a pretty [expletive] comment to make. I have no intention on getting the vaccine (and no, I’m not an anti-vaxxer or anti-mask) unless I’m absolutely forced to because of my work. For everyone to blindly put their faith in an experimental vaccine created by pharmaceutical companies that have TERRIBLE track records of having zero concern for public health or safety isn’t exactly making me line up to get a vaccine. I have no issues w/ anyone who does/doesn’t get it, it’s a personal choice. There is so much more known about the virus and being a healthy adult in his 40’s I’ve weighed the risks of the disease against the potential unknown risks of the vaccine.

I’ll continue wearing my mask outdoors and in public, but to say I’m ignorant or “deserving of a Darwin Award” because I’ve chosen not to get it is insulting.

COVID-19 is known for its STELLAR track record for public health and safety.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

At the risk of sounding crass... At this point anyone choosing not to get a vaccine is just nominating themselves for a Darwin award. I'm still uncomfortable in crowded indoor spaces and I'll abide by whatever mask rules businesses put up, but I'm not worrying about the unvaxxed anymore. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I think that’s a pretty [expletive] comment to make. I have no intention on getting the vaccine (and no, I’m not an anti-vaxxer or anti-mask) unless I’m absolutely forced to because of my work. For everyone to blindly put their faith in an experimental vaccine created by pharmaceutical companies that have TERRIBLE track records of having zero concern for public health or safety isn’t exactly making me line up to get a vaccine. I have no issues w/ anyone who does/doesn’t get it, it’s a personal choice. There is so much more known about the virus and being a healthy adult in his 40’s I’ve weighed the risks of the disease against the potential unknown risks of the vaccine.

I’ll continue wearing my mask outdoors and in public, but to say I’m ignorant or “deserving of a Darwin Award” because I’ve chosen not to get it is insulting.

COVID-19 is known for its STELLAR track record for public health and safety.

Which is a statement that while true (sarcasm noted) doesn't refute anything karp said and only serves as an irritant. So, congrats if that's what you were going for.

Regardless, I think we can all agree people not getting vaxxed don't think they will die from Covid and the majority of them will be correct.

Understanding both sides of the vax debate, I really like what the CDC did. And, I say that because I think there are 5 camps of people:
1. Those vaxxed that overestimate the danger of Covid*
2. Those vaxxed that about accurately estimate the danger of Covid
3. Those unvaxxed that about accurately estimate the danger of Covid
4. Those unvaxxed that underestimate the danger of Covid.
5. Those that can't get vaxxed.

And, just a quick clarification: By danger, I mean an individuals danger if exposed naturally. Let's leave the herd immunity, variants, etc stuff out of this discussion.

Let's ignore 5. There are subgroups within the other 4, undoubtedly, but no need to get more granular. There may be a small group of people vaxxed that underestimate the severity but very few. And, I doubt there are any unvaxxed that overestimate it.

Regardless, what the CDC did speaks directly to groups 1, 2, and 3, imo, and group 4 doesn't care what the CDC says. They already don't wear masks so who the [expletive] cares. But I read their statment as : Groups 1 and 2, good job, no need for masks. You're safe. VAccines work. Group 3, you can still get sick and die. Go get vaxxed so you can be safe and get rid of your mask like all the cool kids. And, really, if we're being honest, Group 3 is the chunk of people that need to be convinced (1)the vaccine is safe and (2) makes people's lives better and who the CDC should directly be targeting. Sending the message masks aren't required due to the efficacy of the vaccine is a pretty good way to address both points, imo.

*(I say that understanding full well Covid is incredibly dangerous, so don't come at me with the lol covid is the most dangerous thing evah!!1 [expletive] because no its not and it's possible to overestimate it's severity)

[haltz]

We're going to be in the interesting position in different industries where you'll be able to walk in and look around and count, let's say, the servers in a restaurant who have and have not been vaccinated.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

We're going to be in the interesting position in different industries where you'll be able to walk in and look around and count, let's say, the servers in a restaurant who have and have not been vaccinated.

Do you think servers not vaccinated will continue to wear masks individually or will proprietors require it?

[haltz]

We're going to be in the interesting position in different industries where you'll be able to walk in and look around and count, let's say, the servers in a restaurant who have and have not been vaccinated.

Do you think servers not vaccinated will continue to wear masks individually or will proprietors require it?

I think most restaurants will follow CDC guidelines or local laws which will be similar and it'll be awkward at best from a hospitality standpoint

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

We're going to be in the interesting position in different industries where you'll be able to walk in and look around and count, let's say, the servers in a restaurant who have and have not been vaccinated.

Do you think servers not vaccinated will continue to wear masks individually or will proprietors require it?

I think most restaurants will follow CDC guidelines or local laws which will be similar and it'll be awkward at best from a hospitality standpoint

Not sure what it's like in StL/MO, around here the state govt rescinded the state wide mask mandate at the end of March but also (in a change from a year ago) allowed local municipalities to still require it. Also, businesses were encouraged to make their own decisions. I've yet to go to a restaurant that didn't still require masks for everyone though I suppose the latest update from the CDC may apply some pressure to loosen restrictions.

[Leroy]

I don't get what the difference actually having had the virus and having been vaccinated. I can go without a mask if I'd had the vaccine, but not if I had the virus and recovered? That doesn't really make sense.

[cardsfantx]

I don't get what the difference actually having had the virus and having been vaccinated. I can go without a mask if I'd had the vaccine, but not if I had the virus and recovered? That doesn't really make sense.

no, no it doesn't...they seem to be purposefully leaving out that demographic (people not vaccinated, but have had the virus and recovered). it really needs to be included into the "herd immunity" count, but it's not. all counts I see are just partial/vaccinated percentages, but if you include that demographic, we're probably very close to herd immunity already (particularly with children who can't be vaccinated and may have already had it, and we don't know as they had no symptoms/were never tested)

people may say, "but you don't know long you're immune if you've had the virus and recovered!"...well guess what, no one knows how long you're immune with ANY of the vaccines either. it's all still so new that we can only go on infection immunity for the past year plus, and less that that with the vaccines.

[G. Keenan]

At the risk of sounding crass... At this point anyone choosing not to get a vaccine is just nominating themselves for a Darwin award. I'm still uncomfortable in crowded indoor spaces and I'll abide by whatever mask rules businesses put up, but I'm not worrying about the unvaxxed anymore. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I think that’s a pretty [expletive] comment to make. I have no intention on getting the vaccine (and no, I’m not an anti-vaxxer or anti-mask) unless I’m absolutely forced to because of my work. For everyone to blindly put their faith in an experimental vaccine created by pharmaceutical companies that have TERRIBLE track records of having zero concern for public health or safety isn’t exactly making me line up to get a vaccine. I have no issues w/ anyone who does/doesn’t get it, it’s a personal choice. There is so much more known about the virus and being a healthy adult in his 40’s I’ve weighed the risks of the disease against the potential unknown risks of the vaccine.

I’ll continue wearing my mask outdoors and in public, but to say I’m ignorant or “deserving of a Darwin Award” because I’ve chosen not to get it is insulting.

I get what you're saying, karp. Just to add some context or food for thought to the points you raise:

1) While these specific Covid vaccines are new because the disease is new, the vaccine technology underlying them is not. The J&J vaccine is a traditional vaccine, using techniques to produce immunity that vaccines have been using for a long time. The Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines are the first mRNA vaccines to hit the market, that is true. But mRNA vaccine technology has been in development for decades. We are just lucky that all the research that's been done for the past 20 years was at a point to be ready for the big time when this pandemic rolled around. In short, it's not the case that the Covid vaccines were developed 100% from scratch just in 2020, and while the general public may only just be hearing terms like mRNA, the scientific research community has been working on them for years. And I don't mean the pharma companies. mRNA vaccine tech was developed in American and European academic research institutions.

2) It's understandable to have general skepticism of big pharma and their motives, but also consider the hard data and evidence around these vaccines. The clinical trials involved tens of thousands of people before being approved for emergency use. And now, literally tens of millions of people in the US and around the world have gotten them. We have a whole lot of evidence that they are very safe and very effective. This data is public, and highly scrutinized. Trusting the vaccine to be safe does not require blind faith. There is abundant evidence of their safety.

3) As human beings we have a hard time properly evaluating risk. We'll do all kinds of highly risky activities just because we are habituated to them. You're more likely to die in a car accident driving to the grocery store this weekend than to be harmed by a vaccine, but we don't think twice about that. If you want to weigh the risk of getting vaccinated against the risk of a Covid infection it's not close. Coming up on 600,000 Americans have already died from it, plenty of them in their 40s. Even if you personally might not suffer from an infection, getting vaccinated means you're less likely to get an asymptomatic infection and unwittingly spread the disease to someone else who might not be as young or healthy as you.

Regardless, you're right that it's a personal decision. So wherever you end up re the vaccine, I wish you continued good health.

[Leroy]

Yeah that is kind of what I'm saying (to tx). I haven't gotten vaccinated, but couldn't for three months after I had Covid, and just haven't gotten it done yet. I'm not against it or anything, it just seems that if I did make a choice not to get it, it would be because I have had it with no symptoms, so that is real, against something that hypothetically won't hurt me but I don't really know that.

And don't call me stupid. I was fully masking and social distancing and staying home and got this [expletive] thing anyway. I'm pretty sure a good percentage of the 500+ thousand dead took precautions too. If all that [expletive] worked, it shouldn't have been a big deal.