Former Cardinals Watch

[wart57]

Remember when we traded Pham for no reason and had a slow utility infielder in CF airmailing throws to the visitor dugout

Remember when we traded Colby and went on to win the World Series that year....

[Big Amoco Sign]

Remember when we traded Pham for no reason and had a slow utility infielder in CF airmailing throws to the visitor dugout

Remember when we traded Colby and went on to win the World Series that year....

Remember when correlation does not equal causation or whatever

[Big Amoco Sign]

Remember when we traded this guy for no reason and could really use his contact ability and plate discipline in a lineup full of strikeout guys?

[Jocephus]

comparing 27 games to 128?

before you lose yer [expletive] i like pham too

[dmarx114]

Remember when we traded Pham for no reason and had a slow utility infielder in CF airmailing throws to the visitor dugout

Remember when we traded Colby and went on to win the World Series that year....

Remember when correlation does not equal causation or whatever

Well, there's a pretty decent chance we don't win in 2011 without making that trade. It's impossible to prove one way or another, but it's very tough to say the Cards still would have won with Rasmus when the guys involved in that trade positively contributed to the team winning.

[Big Amoco Sign]

comparing 27 games to 128?

before you lose yer [expletive] i like pham too

Thinking he wasn't going to turn it around was more the issue I was driving at.

6 WAR season. Now likely a ~3 WAR season (in limited play yet again). I'm sure somewhere in between next year and year after.

Whole lineup has 7/30 BB/K guys that don't make contact. Would have been nice to have a Pham.

[Big Amoco Sign]

Well, there's a pretty decent chance we don't win in 2011 without making that trade. It's impossible to prove one way or another, but it's very tough to say the Cards still would have won with Rasmus when the guys involved in that trade positively contributed to the team winning.

You're right, they may have won more games. Never know. Fun times with Alternate History. Some Philip K. Dick [expletive].

[wart57]

Well, there's a pretty decent chance we don't win in 2011 without making that trade. It's impossible to prove one way or another, but it's very tough to say the Cards still would have won with Rasmus when the guys involved in that trade positively contributed to the team winning.

You're right, they may have won more games. Never know. Fun times with Alternate History. Some Philip K. Dick [expletive].

And thinking Pham would have put up those same numbers in StL had he not been traded isn't?

I love Pham.

Hate he was traded.

Love the way the Cards are playing now.

Hope the best for Pham in Tampa.

[tlombard]

Maybe Pham would have turned it around after Matheny got canned like everybody else seems to have done but it was a pretty decent sample size this season of Pham hitting .248 and striking out 2.3 times for every walk and striking out in 24.5% of his ABs in his 98 games with the Cards this season. As a reference, the entire team has struck out 25.1% of their ABs so far this season. Pham wasn't making contact a whole lot more than everybody else. The team walk rate in 2018 is the same as Pham's with the Cards in 2018. As a team, the Cards K/BB ratio was very slightly BETTER than Pham's 2.309 at 2.255.

Those numbers are also a LOT more similar to his 2015 and 2016 seasons (with more games played in 2018 than either other season) than they are to his 2017 season. Those three seasons combine for twice as many games as his 2017 season (almost 2x the number of games, only off by 1 actually) so assuming that his first 98 games of 2018 were an outlier based on his 2017 numbers is debatable.

Just because Pham has picked things back up with Tampa does NOT mean he would have done it here in St. Louis. Not saying either environment is right are wrong or better for, but they are different and at the time the environment in St. Louis was completely toxic so things had to be shaken up. Like it or not, the environment does matter for players and not every player thrives in the same type of environment.

I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't have traded him because I don't want to get into an endless argument (this is my only post because I have to leave to grab dinner and go home) but to me it doesn't make sense to keep going over this again and again. He's gone. We're remembering him with rose colored glasses based on what he did last year but it is what it is. He may or may not have turned things around this season and make the team better than it is now if he stayed but it over. It is time to move on.

[Swirls]

Christ, this [expletive] about the Pham trade is going to be rehashed a million times just like the "Cardinals are cheap and won't sign elite FA for high $$$" argument, isn't it?

Jesus Christ, let it go people. We didn't [expletive] this much about the Mulder trade, and that had way worse repercussions.