Hoot45 wrote:It would be helpful if a starting pitcher could go more than 5 innings. This isn't the playoffs. We shouldn't be asking the pen to go 4 innings every damn night. (I'm not saying Flaherty is to blame, for the record). Leone [expletive] up and went back to the same location on Braun, who sitting on the pitch. I put that on Leone/Molina as much as I do Matheny even though Leone shouldn't have still been in there. Anyway, shuffle the personnel of the bullpen all you want but if we really do just get 5 innings out of a SP every night this is going to be a recurring problem.
Baseball is evolving. Starting pitchers going 7+ innings is becoming a thing of the past. This is why an 8 man bullpen is necessary. Certain guys will be unavailable on any given day (as Hicks likely was yesterday).
It sucked to lose in the way we did last night. But the last few pages of this thread have a severely different tone if Yelich pops the pitch up instead of hitting it out.
jagtrader wrote:Getting a 5-out save with Leone is not a winning plan. Almost pulled it off.
That's kind of what I thought. Wasn't paying close enough attention, but surely someone had to have been available and a better option than Leone at the end.
And what made Matheny decide that Leone was THE guy to run out there for that kind of outing? Spring training performance?
Leone was one pitch away from making Matheny look like a genius. In the 5 batters he faced prior to Yelich, Leone struck out 2, gave up 2 lazy fly balls, and a seeing eye single.
Leone left a couple pitches up and 2 outstanding players made him pay.
Sometimes you just get beat.
But pinning anything on Matheny for the Leone 5 out decision is ridiculous.
There aren't very many relievers in the game that I would leave in for a 5 out save period, and especially not a non-closer. I thought using Leone in the 8th was a fine move, but I would have gone to another arm in the ninth. You don't need to be a genius in this game. Just play the numbers. And numbers suggest that 5 out saves from non-closers is a bad idea.
I really disagree. Sheriff got 5 outs last night. Even Bowman got 6 outs on Sunday. Asking relief pitchers to go more than an inning every now and then is really not a big deal.
dmarx114 wrote:I really disagree. Sheriff got 5 outs last night. Even Bowman got 6 outs on Sunday. Asking relief pitchers to go more than an inning every now and then is really not a big deal.
Neither of those examples were save situations; both were middle innings after the starter couldn't go deeper into the game. I have no problem with either of those moves. If your starter can't get past the fifth, then yes, by all means use your long man for more than an inning if he's going well. But, when you get to the 9th in a tight game with the middle of the order, play the matchups and situational odds.
dmarx114 wrote:I really disagree. Sheriff got 5 outs last night. Even Bowman got 6 outs on Sunday. Asking relief pitchers to go more than an inning every now and then is really not a big deal.
Exactly. It's not a big deal to rely on your bullpen like that every now and then. No matter what is trending in baseball this is not a 4 innings-a-game bullpen for a 162 game season. And that wasn't an "aw shucks the other guy made a nice play" mistake. Leone started going back to the well one too many times and Yelich/Braun knew it was coming.
Agree with everything Matheny did with the bullpen last night. But when you have 8 relievers and your best option is to push a non-closer five outs for a really hard save, you probably made some bad roster decisions along the way.
Additionally, the cost of having Tui, Mayers and Norris all on the team is the only bench player was the backup catcher if that game went extra innings. And Carpenter was removed.
jagtrader wrote:Additionally, the cost of having Tui, Mayers and Norris all on the team is the only bench player was the backup catcher if that game went extra innings. And Carpenter was removed.
It would seem to me the double switches were much worse decisions than the bullpen.
