Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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docellis
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Re: Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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Diddy wrote:If heir is no one with money to buy the products what does it matter? I didn't read the article so maybe it addresses it, but don't you have to have someone to buy your product.
the article makes this point better than I ever have (and I have tried).

Pioneer: Yes, That is the same guy they were interviewing on NPR. Thanks for the link to the article. I just posted it on fb.

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Re: Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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docellis wrote:
Diddy wrote:If heir is no one with money to buy the products what does it matter? I didn't read the article so maybe it addresses it, but don't you have to have someone to buy your product.
the article makes this point better than I ever have (and I have tried).

Pioneer: Yes, That is the same guy they were interviewing on NPR. Thanks for the link to the article. I just posted it on fb.
I'll try to read it today, I was working cows yesterday and didn't have time.

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pioneer98
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Re: Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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Someone posted on Facebook that said the the Twin Cities was the best of the large metro areas for upward mobility and had some of the lowest amounts of inequality. It went into some policy decisions and reasons why they thought this might be...Facebook chose to put an interesting "related article" right underneath it that said that the Twin Cities were actually the worst for inequality by race. I checked it out and the Twin Cities metro is 82% white. The #2 and #3 cities with the lowest amount of inequality were Salt Lake City (87% white) and Pittsburgh (90% white). Contrast these with the Chicago area, which is 55% white. Seems like the places where inequality is lowest is where there are fewer minorities.

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Re: Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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pioneer98 wrote:Someone posted on Facebook that said the the Twin Cities was the best of the large metro areas for upward mobility and had some of the lowest amounts of inequality. It went into some policy decisions and reasons why they thought this might be...Facebook chose to put an interesting "related article" right underneath it that said that the Twin Cities were actually the worst for inequality by race. I checked it out and the Twin Cities metro is 82% white. The #2 and #3 cities with the lowest amount of inequality were Salt Lake City (87% white) and Pittsburgh (90% white). Contrast these with the Chicago area, which is 55% white. Seems like the places where inequality is lowest is where there are fewer minorities.
I just saw found this article on vox:

The Miracle of Minneapolis

I've only skimmed it, but it seems to be on point:
One reason the American dream has come apart is that too few cities have shared their resources—and real estate—between the rich and the rest. This isn’t a fact of nature, like the mountains and oceans that restrain our coastal metros. It is a policy of our own choosing. The lesson of Minneapolis is that even our richest cities are free to make a different choice.

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pioneer98
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Re: Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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A really interesting article in Harper's kinda related to this:
http://harpers.org/archive/2015/03/the- ... -fired-me/

It's behind a paywall. A brief summary: it talks about how technology now allows companies to track every single aspect of performance of their workers. UPS is the main example. They have 200 sensors now on their vehicles that report back whether the driver is wearing a seat belt, how fast he's going, GPS location where packages are signed for, amount of time at each stop, time spent idling, etc, etc, etc. The drivers find ways to get around the monitoring, too. To cut down on time at stops, they'll just leave a sticker on someone's door rather than actually knocking and having them sign for it. Takes too much time! Or they will jaywalk through traffic to save time. Or they will leave their seatbelt buckled and just sit on top of it to fool the sensors and save a little time. The other thing he talked quite a bit about was robo-scheduling in retail and fast food. They have so much data they know how to schedule employees so they are most likely to be working when needed. Stretched really thin though. This causes a number of problems. First, the robot doing the scheduling has no regard for what time the employee's daycare might be open, so they have to scramble to find someone to watch their kids. Their schedule is different every week, too, so that makes it even harder. Or they'll get scheduled during a time they are supposed to be working a 2nd job. In order to reach full time status, you basically have to be available all the time, 7 days a week so all the oddball random times you get scheduled can add up to 40 hours. Oh, and wage theft. When the rush of customers was not timed perfectly to the robo-schedule, then they are shorthanded. People are asked to stay later without pay, or work through breaks without pay, or start working early without pay...Or they'll tell an employee to hang out in the break room all day and just clock in when they need you. And if you don't, you are let go. It's basically slave labor.

TL;DR employees are getting treated like robots in a lot of ways.

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Re: Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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Go watch Robert Reich's documentary "Inequality For All". It's on Netflix. He's the really short former labor secretary. He tries to show why this is a problem in a bipartisan way. Very interesting explanations about what he thinks the forces are behind it, too. For example, he believes the decline of unions is a symptom and not a cause of the problems. It's technology, globalization, and our policies...

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Re: Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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Just started reading this:

A World Without Work
The U.S. labor force has been shaped by millennia of technological progress. Agricultural technology birthed the farming industry, the industrial revolution moved people into factories, and then globalization and automation moved them back out, giving rise to a nation of services. But throughout these reshufflings, the total number of jobs has always increased. What may be looming is something different: an era of technological unemployment, in which computer scientists and software engineers essentially invent us out of work, and the total number of jobs declines steadily and permanently.

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Re: Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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John Maynard Keynes predicted the same thing 100 years ago. We're still working pretty hard.

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Re: Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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thrill wrote:John Maynard Keynes predicted the same thing 100 years ago. We're still working pretty hard.
They talk about why this time might be different.
After 300 years of people crying wolf, there are now three broad reasons to take seriously the argument that the beast is at the door: the ongoing triumph of capital over labor, the quiet demise of the working man, and the impressive dexterity of information technology.

• Labor’s losses. One of the first things we might expect to see in a period of technological displacement is the diminishment of human labor as a driver of economic growth. In fact, signs that this is happening have been present for quite some time. The share of U.S. economic output that’s paid out in wages fell steadily in the 1980s, reversed some of its losses in the ’90s, and then continued falling after 2000, accelerating during the Great Recession. It now stands at its lowest level since the government started keeping track in the mid‑20th century.
• The spread of nonworking men and underemployed youth. The share of prime-age Americans (25 to 54 years old) who are working has been trending down since 2000. Among men, the decline began even earlier: the share of prime-age men who are neither working nor looking for work has doubled since the late 1970s, and has increased as much throughout the recovery as it did during the Great Recession itself. All in all, about one in six prime-age men today are either unemployed or out of the workforce altogether. This is what the economist Tyler Cowen calls “the key statistic” for understanding the spreading rot in the American workforce. Conventional wisdom has long held that under normal economic conditions, men in this age group—at the peak of their abilities and less likely than women to be primary caregivers for children—should almost all be working. Yet fewer and fewer are.
• The shrewdness of software. One common objection to the idea that technology will permanently displace huge numbers of workers is that new gadgets, like self-checkout kiosks at drugstores, have failed to fully displace their human counterparts, like cashiers. But employers typically take years to embrace new machines at the expense of workers. The robotics revolution began in factories in the 1960s and ’70s, but manufacturing employment kept rising until 1980, and then collapsed during the subsequent recessions. Likewise, “the personal computer existed in the ’80s,” says Henry Siu, an economist at the University of British Columbia, “but you don’t see any effect on office and administrative-support jobs until the 1990s, and then suddenly, in the last recession, it’s huge. So today you’ve got checkout screens and the promise of driverless cars, flying drones, and little warehouse robots. We know that these tasks can be done by machines rather than people. But we may not see the effect until the next recession, or the recession after that.”

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Re: Rich People, Robots: Are we Effed?

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What do you do if you don't work all day?

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