The Beer Thread

[Freed Roger]

I don't think people drank it to get hammered, they drank it more to hydrate and nourish. Unprocessed water would kill you, and you needed some calories with your drink to give you energy to farm your land and smite your enemies.

good point. That and they wanted to get hammered.

[jim]

I don't think people drank it to get hammered, they drank it more to hydrate and nourish. Unprocessed water would kill you, and you needed some calories with your drink to give you energy to farm your land and smite your enemies.

good point. That and they wanted to get hammered.

Given it was the Middle Ages and life pretty much sucked if you weren't royalty, I'm sure they didn't mind either.

[lukethedrifter]

I liked the Side Project Cellar [/url]

You must have more money than I do.

already had a few before going there, so that helps. Civil Life Gordian Knot Bock - I think I got close to 12oz for $6. I think the aged Side Project stuff was the costlier.

[Freed Roger]

I liked the Side Project Cellar [/url]

You must have more money than I do.

already had a few before going there, so that helps. Civil Life Gordian Knot Bock - I think I got close to 12oz for $6. I think the aged Side Project stuff was the costlier.

Must admit, Mine eyes can't read that that tiny print in low light, especially after a drink. 33rds peeps need to stop using italics, and use larger print for the middle aged nearsighted bourgeois.

[33anda3rd]

Anybody up for reading something utterly ridiculous about AB InBev purchasing Elysian?

He starts off ok.

One of the common complaints is that AB InBev will run a craft brewery like they run their own breweries and quality will suffer. So far we’ve seen none of that; breweries like Goose Island seem to be churning out the same quality beer they did and perhaps with an influx of cash that allows them to upgrade equipment and distribute more beer to a wider distribution area.

This is true. Goose is just as good as when the Halls owned it. If AB InBev had made Goose a worse beer, Greg Hall wouldn't have posted on Facebook this week:

Hey all you Subaru driving, Facebook posting, Apple using corporate haters. Go quit your corporate job and live naked in the woods. Elysian Brewing will continue to make great beer (and put into a corporate bottle, like every other brewer large and small) no matter who owns them. Same brewers, same water and malt, better hops (nice to be in the from of the line). Cheers to you Dick Cantwell and David Buhler, for having the guts to start Elysian 20 years ago, the fortitude to turn your passion into a successful business and the giant set of balls to take the next step. A thousand pints in your honor.

Anyway, the beergraphs guy then just kind of launches into lunacy.

What's more worrisome is that this could be the beginning of a long plan for these giant beer conglomerates to again dominate the beer market, and it’s one that can work.

Not really, because the only thing in the history of this country to break up small breweries and consolidate them has been Prohibition.

What if they decided that in order to get BCBS you had to clear your shelves or taps of other barrel-aged stouts?

They wouldn't, because they know that's not reasonable. Hey, Adam Vavrick, don't buy any barrel-aged stout that's not BCBS for 364 days/year so you can remain the King Of Black Friday. Not happening. You couldn't say a more ridiculous thing, could you?....

What if there was one less Budweiser commercial at this year’s Super Bowl, and one for Bourbon County Brand Stout? What if they start building anticipation towards Black Friday and this year’s release?

Oh boy.
1. Not happening.
2. The beer drops 9 months after the Super Bowl so that won't help build anticipation.
3. People line up at 4pm on freaking Thanksgiving to buy the stuff and it's sold out by 1145am the next day, so anticipation wise they're basically maxed out.

Re marketing...

The casual beer drinker is going to recognize (craft beer bought and marketed by AB InBev), and that brand. That’s how advertising works. They know they like IPAs, see Goose Island IPA or Elysian Space Dust on the shelf, and buy it. They’ll never realize they could have had the option of Lagunitas IPA, or Ballast Point Sculpin, or Carton 077XX. They’ll remember hearing about Blue Point Toasted Lager, and it’ll draw them to purchase it. None of these are bad beers, in fact they’re quite enjoyable, but I don’t want my variety and options limited by a huge corporate conglomerate.

Since they bought Goose and a couple others there has been a BOOM of choices in craft beer. We have more choice now than ever. This guy isn't having his toys taken away. If someone gets a Blue Point in a state that never had Blue Point and they're drinking that, great! Also Lagunitas IPA, what an awful example. Not a great beer.

My favorite:

They’re trying to control the selection of craft beer that’s available to you. and they now control four craft breweries from different parts of the country.

Four breweries. AB InBev bought four craft breweries. Four. From where you're sitting right now, probably four breweries opened within 150 miles of home in the last 90 days. Craft breweries are popping up all over the place, and Bud bought about as many in several years as there are to open in Chicago every 60 days. They're not swallowing the market and controlling choice, they're picking up valuable brands that turn a profit.

[Freed Roger]

Nope, the sky is not falling with craft breweries selling out to Inbev. And I've never had Elysian.

Nevertheless, it's a trend, with potential to expand. and yes, most craft beers that fail will be due to their own fault and bad beer rather than corp beer.

Main thing with ABinbev is their considerable clout with distribution. They are already in every store, and every bar. of course they are going to flex their muscle -they always have and they always will. Will bars and stores keep as much space/taps available for smaller outfits?

It's not a level playing field - and I'm not suggesting that it ever can truly be -but it's definitely far from a free competitive market for beer. I already see too much Goose Island 312 swill crowding up tappers and shelves at my grocery store. Damn it, most people don't have time to go to specialty stores and craft beer bars. the fact that more local breweries are popping up matters not - Inbev thinks that's a dumbass expensive way to sell beer. They'll control the mainstream.

and the Goose Island guy sounds like a pretentious dick. Glad Inbev's Bourbon Co Beer, is not my thing - I'd rather sip Bourbon itself than be held hostage to goose island..

[33anda3rd]

most craft beers that fail will be due to their own fault and bad beer rather than corp beer.

This. I won't name them but I've dealt with some really bad ones the past year or so that are certain to fall away. One guy, it's a thing with homebrewers who were good at home, got some dough, and are contract brewing in another brewery's space. They charge $100 for a 1/6bbl of meh beer. A 5% cream ale. That's almost double what a keg from other new breweries by converted homebrewers costs, like Ale Syndicate and Begyle. It's crazy, the price. Another guy, fired his whole team--which was another brewer, another brewer, and a guy who did odds and ends like labelling and helping brew. He had, when he started, a bunch of guys who knew how to make beer and no salesperson out selling the beer. He's drowning in debt, even though he actually makes some of the best beer in Chicago, because he has distributor issues and has no salesperson. He didn't approach it as business, he approached it as making beer.

Anyway.

Will bars and stores keep as much space/taps available for smaller outfits?

In bars where AB products dominate now, they'll continue to dominate and might get a bit more space. Wrigleyville sports bars. Suburban chains with bars like Chili's and such.

In bars and restaurants that have notable and carefully constructed beer lists both big and small, they're not carrying much if any AB stuff now and that won't change. Hopleaf has Green Line on tap--no Stella, no Hoegaarten, nothing else. Bangers and Lace would never have an AB product. Maybe a BCS, but most likely they'd whip out a 2013 that's been downstairs for two years. My place we've had two AB beers in two years, a 1/6bbl of BCS that we kicked last week, and a 1/6bbl of Goose Island Fulton & Wood Series Lilith Pomegranate Berliner Weisse in the early fall. I won't buy Elysian now because AB has it*, I doubt Hopleaf will, and I'm certain B&L won't.

Most places carrying mainstream beer, sure, they'll add Elysian, and possibly draw someone to a new beer. Most places who don't work with AB won't buy it. So the influence AB InBev will have is mostly with the people going to more mainstream places. Some beer snob in Portland isn't getting mud on his new shoes here. Someone seeking out craft beer isn't going to have choice limited. But someone in Peoria is going to get a crack at Elysian Space Dust, and that's not a bad thing at all. Sure, it means they don't have the menu option maybe of a Sierra Nevada, but any customer introduced to craft is a good introduction. That person will get around to Sierra Nevada if the intro goes well.

*Edit to add: I worded that poorly. I don't mean I won't buy it because it's an AB product. I mean I've never bought it (it's not currently distributed in IL) and I won't be starting to buy it just because it has become available.

and the Goose Island guy sounds like a pretentious dick.

He is, but his point is a good one. Elysian gets better access to hops. To distribution. To other things. The beer in the bottle won't change. He'd know, because he brewed all that Goose Island beer. If his babies were being altered and sold as the same stuff, he'd not take that stance. He doesn't need to, he's making cider now and has no skin in the beer game really.

[jim]

Well the beer the Goose Island bottles would probably benefit from some change from my point of view. Not a fan of that brewer at all.

[33anda3rd]

Some of Goose's core stuff that's all over the country doesn't always resonate with me. I don't really care for 312 or Honkers. Their IPA is pretty good. The Vintage Ales, the ones with female names, are pretty darn good across the board, some of them excellent to my taste.

The fun stuff is the stuff you get in the Clybourn brewpub and from the Fulton & Wood Series, plus of course BCS. At Clybourn they have something like 25 draft beers, and usually 20 or so of them are beers you cannot get anywhere outside that brewpub. Everything from German Pils to Doppelbock to Berliner Weisse to a 12% ABV Barrel-Aged beer. Those are the good Goose Beers, that aren't being brewed at an AB facility in some other state. The Fulton & Woods have all been great. There's a rye ale out now called Shred The Gnar that's fantastic, and I usually don't like rye beers.

[33anda3rd]

One other quick thing about Goose. The family tree is insane.



Matt at Firestone has, with Sierra Nevada, one of the two most consistently good breweries in America. He nails everything from Pils (Gold Medal at GABF this year) to heavy stuff, and they're all good. Easy Jack is IMO the very very best of the new style of session IPAs.

Laffler at Off Color used to run the BCS program at Goose. He makes incredible beers at Off Color, doing mostly lost German styles that no one else is making. Two medals at the Festival of Barrel Aged Beer this year.

Jared at Moody Tongue was a CIA-educated chef who worked some big-time jobs in NYC and he now makes 'culinary beers' that are pretty fantastic.

Korder at Penrose makes some of the best wild beers going, plus a few great year-round Belgian styles. The founder there, Eric, was a salesman for Goose for years.

Goose is arguably the most influential American brewery of the craft beer boom.