"I'm the victim". The American Way.

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pioneer98
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Re: "I'm the victim". The American Way.

Post by pioneer98 »

planet p wrote:I don't know, I think after 2008 most people lost whatever inflated sense of entitlement they used to have, given that many people are underemployed and/or haven't received a real wage increase in years.
Actually, the 2008 crisis magnified our victimhood. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people took a different lesson from it, I don't want to over-generalize. But the ones determined to be victims are/were LOUD. On the right we had the Tea Party. They are victims of the big bad government! Tyranny! Left-leaning people blame the Koch brothers and all these other bogey men for all their problems.

It does really suck to lose your job. I know because it's happened to me in the past. Some amount of complaining is normal and probably part of recovering from losing your job or your house or whatever. But man it seems like some people never get out of that denial/anger phase. They never get to: "Well, this sucks, but might as well try to make the most of what I've got." They just listen to Fox News or the Huffington Post tell them that, yes, they are right to feel like victims, darn it. It sells.

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pioneer98
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Re: "I'm the victim". The American Way.

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I want to preface what I am saying with this: I'm by no means trying to diminish bullying or say it isn't a real problem. I was bullied for a time in school myself so I know it is real.

There are 2 moms in our neighborhood - one has a kid in our son's class and one with a kid in the junior high across the street from our son's school. They are constantly on Facebook complaining about these schools. They say the teachers yell at their kids and their kids are being bullied and the schools refuse to do anything about it. We ask our son if the kid in his class is ever in trouble with the teacher or is having problems and he always says "no". They are friends.

I have dealt with these parents in other situations. They attract drama wherever they go, whatever they are doing. They aren't just complaining about schools but they complain about neighbors, the city, literally everything. The one woman lives a couple blocks away from us and she was describing all kinds of trauma and drama with crime, traffic and her neighbors. I finally told her she should just move 3 blocks East because we don't have any of those issues on our street. The other one took over managing a local Facebook "Buy/Sell" group that my wife uses. Since she took over she's been banning people, locking the group, etc. She made my wife a moderator, then removed her as moderator, then put her back - all without even talking to my wife about it. Finally someone started a new group and everyone is leaving for that one now because it is run so much better.

So here is my theory: I think maybe their kids aren't doing as well in school as they'd like so they invent all these "problems" to blame their "failures" on. I put failures in quotes because I don't think their kids are even doing all that bad in school! The thing that really ticks me off is that they are out there telling everyone that our school and neighborhood suck when the reality is not that bad. The neighborhood is definitely not perfect but it is nothing like what these people are saying. The school must also take time to deal with their constant complaints, time which could probably be better spent on other things. Just another way that I see Americans trying really hard to be victims.

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Re: "I'm the victim". The American Way.

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I'm not so sure most stuff is trying to be a victim as much as it is that so many people these days have egos that are out of control to the point where they can't possibly accept the fact that anything is their fault. I guess really it is the same thing more or less. I just believe that the problem isn't people feeling sorry for themselves and painting themselves as victims as it is that they have an over inflated ego and can't accept that they are wrong in many cases.

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Re: "I'm the victim". The American Way.

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tlombard wrote:I'm not so sure most stuff is trying to be a victim as much as it is that so many people these days have egos that are out of control to the point where they can't possibly accept the fact that anything is their fault. I guess really it is the same thing more or less. I just believe that the problem isn't people feeling sorry for themselves and painting themselves as victims as it is that they have an over inflated ego and can't accept that they are wrong in many cases.
It's the corollary to the "everyone is a unique delicate snowflake" self esteem movement of the 70s/80s. If you're special in everything you do, then you're never wrong. Everyone else is wrong. Only everyone else is also a special and unique genius, so they're never wrong either.

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Re: "I'm the victim". The American Way.

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Wait I'm unique then because I'm almost always wrong.

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Re: "I'm the victim". The American Way.

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pioneer98 wrote: I have dealt with these parents in other situations. They attract drama wherever they go, whatever they are doing. They aren't just complaining about schools but they complain about neighbors, the city, literally everything. The one woman lives a couple blocks away from us and she was describing all kinds of trauma and drama with crime, traffic and her neighbors. I finally told her she should just move 3 blocks East because we don't have any of those issues on our street. The other one took over managing a local Facebook "Buy/Sell" group that my wife uses. Since she took over she's been banning people, locking the group, etc. She made my wife a moderator, then removed her as moderator, then put her back - all without even talking to my wife about it. Finally someone started a new group and everyone is leaving for that one now because it is run so much better.

So here is my theory: I think maybe their kids aren't doing as well in school as they'd like so they invent all these "problems" to blame their "failures" on. I put failures in quotes because I don't think their kids are even doing all that bad in school! The thing that really ticks me off is that they are out there telling everyone that our school and neighborhood suck when the reality is not that bad. The neighborhood is definitely not perfect but it is nothing like what these people are saying. The school must also take time to deal with their constant complaints, time which could probably be better spent on other things. Just another way that I see Americans trying really hard to be victims.
I work with a lady exactly like this. Her kids are totally normal but it's gone from getting them alternate assignments, to untimed tests, to no tests at all, to now they are in the special needs class. Another coworker's wife teaches that class and said her kids have no business being in there. She's also in the process of trying to get them all on SSI disability payments for dubious reasons like asthma and sleep apnea. She's the same way at work. Has to have a special chair and a special keyboard and a special schedule and a reduced workload etc etc. She's actually pretty good at her job on the rare occasion she can't avoid doing something. It goes beyond just pure laziness. I think she gets some kind of thrill out of constantly creating drama and gaming the system as much as possible.

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Re: "I'm the victim". The American Way.

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tlombard wrote:I'm not so sure most stuff is trying to be a victim as much as it is that so many people these days have egos that are out of control to the point where they can't possibly accept the fact that anything is their fault. I guess really it is the same thing more or less. I just believe that the problem isn't people feeling sorry for themselves and painting themselves as victims as it is that they have an over inflated ego and can't accept that they are wrong in many cases.
I agree with what you are saying. They think they (or their kids) should be the best, smartest, whatever, and when they realize they aren't they create all these scapegoats rather than admit they aren't the best. So the reason they aren't the best is because they are "victims" of all these outside things. And the thing is: no one cares. Other people aren't out there comparing themselves against them constantly in some imaginary life competition.

I have normal conversations with these people and they can be nice. They are smart. They can be funny. Until the subject changes you'd never know their life was in such disarray because of schools or crime or traffic or whatever the latest problem is. Because their life really isn't in disarray.

The thing that pisses me off is that they are always out there on Facebook or forums or just talking to other people telling them that our school and neighborhood suck. If you want to live with all this drama, fine, but don't do it at the expense of my property values.

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Re: "I'm the victim". The American Way.

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cardsfansince82 wrote:
pioneer98 wrote: I have dealt with these parents in other situations. They attract drama wherever they go, whatever they are doing. They aren't just complaining about schools but they complain about neighbors, the city, literally everything. The one woman lives a couple blocks away from us and she was describing all kinds of trauma and drama with crime, traffic and her neighbors. I finally told her she should just move 3 blocks East because we don't have any of those issues on our street. The other one took over managing a local Facebook "Buy/Sell" group that my wife uses. Since she took over she's been banning people, locking the group, etc. She made my wife a moderator, then removed her as moderator, then put her back - all without even talking to my wife about it. Finally someone started a new group and everyone is leaving for that one now because it is run so much better.

So here is my theory: I think maybe their kids aren't doing as well in school as they'd like so they invent all these "problems" to blame their "failures" on. I put failures in quotes because I don't think their kids are even doing all that bad in school! The thing that really ticks me off is that they are out there telling everyone that our school and neighborhood suck when the reality is not that bad. The neighborhood is definitely not perfect but it is nothing like what these people are saying. The school must also take time to deal with their constant complaints, time which could probably be better spent on other things. Just another way that I see Americans trying really hard to be victims.
I work with a lady exactly like this. Her kids are totally normal but it's gone from getting them alternate assignments, to untimed tests, to no tests at all, to now they are in the special needs class. Another coworker's wife teaches that class and said her kids have no business being in there. She's also in the process of trying to get them all on SSI disability payments for dubious reasons like asthma and sleep apnea. She's the same way at work. Has to have a special chair and a special keyboard and a special schedule and a reduced workload etc etc. She's actually pretty good at her job on the rare occasion she can't avoid doing something. It goes beyond just pure laziness. I think she gets some kind of thrill out of constantly creating drama and gaming the system as much as possible.
That's pathetic. The ones I am talking about aren't trying to game the system but I could see people like this doing that. I've heard stories, too.

If anything with the ones I am talking about, all this drama around them is actually causing them more problems, not making anything easier.

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Re: "I'm the victim". The American Way.

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I think it's really easy to blame the people, when the system has more to do with what's going on than individual choices. To a degree a system is made up by individuals and their actions, but in this case our system is controlled by a very, very small plutocracy, one with a vest interest in keeping most folks at each other's throats. There's been no increase in real, inflation adjusted, wages since the early 1970s. In the meantime, the middle class's share of the national wealth has declined from about 52 percent, down to about 47 percent, while the poor's share has fallen dramatically. All that money and power found its way into the hands of the richest 3-5%. The result is, for the working class, a real sense that they've lost control of their lives. Most 30 year olds today have little chance of having as good of life as their parents. The American dream, for them, died in the 1970s at (not coincidentially) the same time the banks convinced the federal government that cheap and easy credit (especially in terms of unsecured credit cards) was the best way to jump start the economy. The result was predictable. The working class ended up working for less. The middle class ended up being squeezed. What does it take for a family of three now to get by without any money worries at all? 65-70K?

We then told the younger generation the lie that a college education would mean an easy, good life. And it was okay if they took out massive loans because they would get good jobs and be able to pay all that money back, with ease.

So today lots of folks on the left and the right feel powerless and helpless. So they blame the "others." For the tea party that's poor Mexican migrants, elites who look down on their way of life, and moral deviants (gays and lesbians, along with others who want whatever alternative lifestyle). Those people have been manipulated by the elites in such a way to convince them that they are under siege, while never really delivering on anything they've been promising for a generation. All they've done is radicalize this group of people. It's no accident that there have been very few Republican leaders in Congress that have supported this mess in Nevada--because active violence is a bridge too far. They just want to generate outrage and support from claiming that the federal government is evil and out to get them.

On the left you have a dependency culture that's been created by a generation of Democrats who promised the moon, and if you couldn't quite make it that far we would at least make sure you don't fall too far, too hard.

It's sickening.

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Re: "I'm the victim". The American Way.

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quietgoesthedon wrote:I think it's really easy to blame the people, when the system has more to do with what's going on than individual choices. To a degree a system is made up by individuals and their actions, but in this case our system is controlled by a very, very small plutocracy, one with a vest interest in keeping most folks at each other's throats. There's been no increase in real, inflation adjusted, wages since the early 1970s. In the meantime, the middle class's share of the national wealth has declined from about 52 percent, down to about 47 percent, while the poor's share has fallen dramatically. All that money and power found its way into the hands of the richest 3-5%. The result is, for the working class, a real sense that they've lost control of their lives. Most 30 year olds today have little chance of having as good of life as their parents. The American dream, for them, died in the 1970s at (not coincidentially) the same time the banks convinced the federal government that cheap and easy credit (especially in terms of unsecured credit cards) was the best way to jump start the economy. The result was predictable. The working class ended up working for less. The middle class ended up being squeezed. What does it take for a family of three now to get by without any money worries at all? 65-70K?

We then told the younger generation the lie that a college education would mean an easy, good life. And it was okay if they took out massive loans because they would get good jobs and be able to pay all that money back, with ease.

So today lots of folks on the left and the right feel powerless and helpless. So they blame the "others." For the tea party that's poor Mexican migrants, elites who look down on their way of life, and moral deviants (gays and lesbians, along with others who want whatever alternative lifestyle). Those people have been manipulated by the elites in such a way to convince them that they are under siege, while never really delivering on anything they've been promising for a generation. All they've done is radicalize this group of people. It's no accident that there have been very few Republican leaders in Congress that have supported this mess in Nevada--because active violence is a bridge too far. They just want to generate outrage and support from claiming that the federal government is evil and out to get them.

On the left you have a dependency culture that's been created by a generation of Democrats who promised the moon, and if you couldn't quite make it that far we would at least make sure you don't fall too far, too hard.

It's sickening.
You're talking big, giant picture. I don't really disagree with what you said. But America is a huge place, and there are still areas that have a decent and sizable middle class. Like my neighborhood. And what I see happening here is:
1. People complain about everything.
2. News stories that confirm their bias towards every problem get trumpeted because that's what they want to read.
3. The perception of the neighborhood/area changes as more of these stories work their way through the larger population.
4. Word of mouth causes residents moving to the area to avoid this neighborhood.
5. Property values decline, the number of students declines, revenue for schools declines (state revenue here is partially based on # of students).
6. What started out as small or imagined problems have now turned into LEGIT problems to deal with. School closings, teacher layoffs, budget cuts, etc.

Even what I'm describing here is an oversimplification because the number of students is also declining just because people are having fewer kids.

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