The Guvmint Shutdown

[Fat Strat]

Is there a tangible endgame/desired result from this ploy? Besides Obamacare staying around - It's not like this is way to make the duties of the VA go away. Does this mean no more NASA? Are we going to privatize National Parks or sell them off? The EPA?

Yeah, elimination of govt programs and institutions have and continue to be talked about. But the shut down will not end them.

Govt institutions and programs (ones that were created by both Republicans and Dems) will be back in the near future, but I'm guessing it will cost taxpayers more money to have a shut down/reopen than if you just left open to begin with. So thanks for the govt waste [expletive]! All for stroking your egos & feeding your extremist constituents.

Those are all things the right wants to make go away. They'd sell the National Parks if they could, they'd eliminate Nasa, the Smithsonian, and everything else they could. They want those things gone.

Believe it or not -- and for you, I know it's not -- the "right" is awfully broad. You're painting with a pretty small brush.

[pioneer98]

Is there a tangible endgame/desired result from this ploy? Besides Obamacare staying around - It's not like this is way to make the duties of the VA go away. Does this mean no more NASA? Are we going to privatize National Parks or sell them off? The EPA?

Yeah, elimination of govt programs and institutions have and continue to be talked about. But the shut down will not end them.

Govt institutions and programs (ones that were created by both Republicans and Dems) will be back in the near future, but I'm guessing it will cost taxpayers more money to have a shut down/reopen than if you just left open to begin with. So thanks for the govt waste [expletive]! All for stroking your egos & feeding your extremist constituents.

Those are all things the right wants to make go away. They'd sell the National Parks if they could, they'd eliminate Nasa, the Smithsonian, and everything else they could. They want those things gone.

Yup. At least a faction of the right does.

[pioneer98]

The thing that pisses me off is that the only talk I ever hear from the 'average' person about anything relating to the government is general stereotypes based on party lines. They never actually touch on the issue. It is always Republicans want to do this or Democrats will do that. I would hope that the shutdown would open some eyes with the general voting public but I don't think it will. I rarely even follow politics because everything out there is complete BS spewed by someone with their own agenda. The government is run by lobbyists and the personal interests of the elected officials and they keep the general public distracted by keeping them divided along party lines to the point where they just argue with each other and don't even know what is really going on. And maybe that isn't exactly true either. Half of the time I think that the country is really run by the select few running the two political parties. They set the policies. They provide the support to get people elected. The people they get elected aren't going to turn their backs on the party are they? The most powerful person in our country isn't the President, it just might be the man who got him there.

So you have to ask the question: how on Earth would the powers that are REALLY running things benefit from a government shutdown?

Basically, they recognize that Republicans will get the brunt of the blame, but they are in extremely segregated districts and are easily replaceable with more Republicans. No biggie there.

This is also another "grab" by the powers that be - the credit of the USA government is pretty good, despite everything. Not until they've succeeded in getting our government downgraded to junk bond status will they stop. And in exchange for that, they get lower taxes and smaller amount of regulation. They don't care - half of them don't even live in America (or at least their money doesn't).

[pioneer98]

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[Jocephus]

ironically today is the 123 "birthday" of yosemite...and...its closed.

[tlombard]

Planet P... I was just spewing complete nonsense. I am honestly part of the problem in that I don't follow what is going on well enough to actually be informed. I spend way too much time working and when I'm not working I'm playing sports, watching sports or drinking at the bar.

I was frustrated with work this morning (until we can replace someone who left our group I'm doing two jobs, one of which I don't actually know but is really important righ tnow) and just started typing randomly.

I am actually capable of putting together well thought out arguments, statements, or whatever. That was NOT one of them. I almost went back and deleted it. Probably should have. Oh well. It is there now.

[Freed Roger]

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Hollywood could not create fictional characters as believably unbelievable as the political clowns.

As much as I enjoyed that, I could definitely see many politicians agree to a phony forbearance of salary/benefits. It's a lot money taxpayer money to pay them, but chickenfeed in their political-financial scheme of things. Most of them were elected in multimillion dollar campaigns. They know that the Koch Brothers (or whoever owns them) will cover them for a long while, and then they will get backpay.

[IMADreamer]

Is there a tangible endgame/desired result from this ploy? Besides Obamacare staying around - It's not like this is way to make the duties of the VA go away. Does this mean no more NASA? Are we going to privatize National Parks or sell them off? The EPA?

Yeah, elimination of govt programs and institutions have and continue to be talked about. But the shut down will not end them.

Govt institutions and programs (ones that were created by both Republicans and Dems) will be back in the near future, but I'm guessing it will cost taxpayers more money to have a shut down/reopen than if you just left open to begin with. So thanks for the govt waste [expletive]! All for stroking your egos & feeding your extremist constituents.

Those are all things the right wants to make go away. They'd sell the National Parks if they could, they'd eliminate Nasa, the Smithsonian, and everything else they could. They want those things gone.

Believe it or not -- and for you, I know it's not -- the "right" is awfully broad. You're painting with a pretty small brush.

I don't think the right is that broad these days. What we've seen is the Republican party slowly splitting over the last few years. You have the right, who are tea baggers and ultra conservative Christians, who for the lack of a better description seem hell bent on destroying the country. From what I've seen statistically they are generally older and less educated and as the President once famously said are clenching at their guns and bible because the world has passed them by. They are doing everything they can to drag us back into their world of racism, wealth inequality, bigotry, and hatred.

The second faction of the Republican party which I do not consider the right are the moderates. They are out there, the John McCains of the world if you will. Sadly they've been playing along with the crazies to try and win elections. So in a way they are as guilty as the right. If they didn't create this monster they sure have fed it. I know Republicans who are not part of this right wing group who are ashamed of what is happening in Congress. Those are the kind of people we need in Congress, the ones who think this constant state of brinksmanship is [expletive].

I don't know what the solution is. Well I have my ideas but I can't say them. We are past the point of democracy though. This isn't working any longer. Our system of govt was not set up so that over grown wealthy children can just throw fits and shut the whole [expletive] thing down when they don't get there way, but that's what they are doing.

Like I said in another thread. Shut it down. Shut it all down. Military, SS, Medicare, Airports, whatever it takes to get people to wake up. Although that won't matter, hell I just heard some moron on the radio saying Obama is at fault for the shut down. I didn't realize he was in Congress.

[pioneer98]

[/youtube]

Hollywood could not create fictional characters as believably unbelievable as the political clowns.

As much as I enjoyed that, I could definitely see many politicians agree to a phony forbearance of salary/benefits. It's a lot money taxpayer money to pay them, but chickenfeed in their political-financial scheme of things. Most of them were elected in multimillion dollar campaigns. They know that the Koch Brothers (or whoever owns them) will cover them for a long while, and then they will get backpay.

I agree. Their hesitation was more about "Well, gee my lobbyist and I never discussed that! I'll need to run that by him" than it was about "Gee, how would I feed my family?"

[Radbird]

The public needs to start paying more attention to what their elected officials actually vote and be willing to kick them out of office even if it means voting for the other party.

But if you hate Obama and your only other choice is Romney....

(feel free to replace those names with any other politicians of your choosing)