JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

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vinsanity
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Re: JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

Post by vinsanity »

TimeForGuinness wrote:You aren't forced to have a 401k. If you have one, you aren't forced to invest in high risk funds.
While true, I think this comes back to a 'power in numbers' thing. Most Americans aren't smart enough to run a 401k, much less smart enough to plan for retirement. If companies took those matches and 401k fees and pumped them in to investments themselves for pension plans, retirement would be much more manageable for most Americans. I think it's easy to forget how not average we are just by means of having this conversation. The average American is more like a Jerry Springer guest than anyone you'll meet on this board. Confirmation bias is a tough thing to overcome.

401ks, however, allow companies to save money when financially ignorant employees start and don't put money in to their 401k. It passes those pension management fees off to the employee. 401k's were never about giving employees choices, options, freedoms and opportunities but saving businesses money. It's probably also the reason, and I can't find the exact number, new grads work for many, many more companies than their parents. NO reason to stick around if you don't have a pension.

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Joe Shlabotnik
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Re: JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

pioneer98 wrote:JPM stock is now down 18% since the news broke.
I'm sniffing around JPM. Same thing as BP after the oil spill. This is an opportunity. IF JPM stays around. Unlike an oil company with real assets, a financial firm - no matter how storied or old - really has no assets other than the electronic bits we call money. Easily moved to another entity. But on the other hand, if you backed up the truck on NY banks in the early 80's, you retired early. Of course at the time, everyone KNEW they were going out of business and you had to be crazy to have a truck anywhere near them.

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AdmiralKird
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Re: JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

Post by AdmiralKird »

I'm going to say $8.7B give or take 200M. I find it odd they came out with this so soon before their positions had more time to close. They could have waited until their next earnings report.

I actually just came here to post this: Recent article on shorting the facebook IPO:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/shorting- ... 41954.html

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Hungary Jack
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Re: JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

Post by Hungary Jack »

lukethedrifter wrote:Well, here we are excusing financial malfeasance as the cost- nay- harmless side effect- of Capitalism again. <sigh>
At this point JPM has lost about $3B on a $200B portfolio, or 1.5%.

The federal government lost 100% on its $450M "investment" in Solyndra.

It lost about 38% on its investment in GM.

I'm not sayin. I'm just sayin.

TimeForGuinness
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Re: JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

Post by TimeForGuinness »

Stop bringing logic into this thread, HJ!

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slide_into_first
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Re: JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

Post by slide_into_first »

Hungary Jack wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:Well, here we are excusing financial malfeasance as the cost- nay- harmless side effect- of Capitalism again. <sigh>
At this point JPM has lost about $3B on a $200B portfolio, or 1.5%.

The federal government lost 100% on its $450M "investment" in Solyndra.

It lost about 38% on its investment in GM.

I'm not sayin. I'm just sayin.
The JPM loss will grow to 7.5% of its portfolio. It is a repeat mistake that tanked the economy in 2008 and we little people paid to rescue them.

The US Govt 450 million would have been wasted on oil company allowances so it is a wash.

The GM bailout will be offset by income taxes recouped from workers who would have been unemployed and now pay higher rates than the 1%.

Just respondin'.

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Hungary Jack
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Re: JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

Post by Hungary Jack »

I'll buy that the GM "investment" paid off. And there still a few shares left for the guvunmint to sell.

JPM shareholders will take a bath on this, but even a 7.5% loss on its investment portfolio won't come close to endangering JPM. That would be about $15B, which is less than its 2011 earnings. It may cost Dimon his job, but I doubt that right now.

I don't think JPM's bad bets will threaten the liquidity of our financial system. If they can make good on their bets, and by every indication they can, then the system won't fly apart.

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Re: JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

Post by greenback44 »

AdmiralKird wrote:I'm going to say $8.7B give or take 200M. I find it odd they came out with this so soon before their positions had more time to close. They could have waited until their next earnings report.
Folks had already figured out London Whale before they had their conference call.

Wow, I missed an Overstock.com exchange. Fortunately registration for GRB is closed.

I don't know JPM's full financials, but a 5% loss on their total portfolio would be devastating. Bankers make money through leverage. However I'm pretty sure folks are understating their total assets by a factor of ten.

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Re: JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

Post by Freed Roger »

AdmiralKird wrote:It's a totally different environment though than the ones your dad and grandparent's grew up in. The same system wouldn't work.
I agree in part. But not with your reasoning regarding medical health and life expectancy -I don't see where that has much to do with it overall. Social security- it has to stay, and privatizing it would be ridiculous, but I won't go in to that now.

RE: Pensions -they will continue to go extinct - I was just being whimsical with remembering the days of regular people having a career (typically for life) and not having the limited retirement fund options that we have today -which are either devoting your brainspace to investment and risk management, and/or turning that process over to some gouging manager.

Pensions have been mismanaged, but since the retirement dollars were defined as opposed to the contribution, that mismanagement would fall on the company (or PBGC/ERISA) and not some typically unknowing individual employee. This way, there was a powerful incentive for a company to have a pension plan that invested wisely and with discipline. The individual employee in effect, has much more power as part of the group than pretending they can master the market on their own. Yeah yeah one may say 401K mutual funds and education of employees replicate the group aspect - but they don't.

Public sector pensions issues arise because the boards for such institutions are typically clueless people/politicians or wannabee politicians that agree to benefits that are unsustainable to pay after market corrections. However, it is telling that one of the nations well-managed pension funds (Wisconsin's) is being sought after by the Religious/Tea Party Right. It would be a major windfall for Wall Street/JP Morgan to privatize funds such as this.

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Re: JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

Post by TimeForGuinness »

greenback44 wrote:
AdmiralKird wrote:I'm going to say $8.7B give or take 200M. I find it odd they came out with this so soon before their positions had more time to close. They could have waited until their next earnings report.
Folks had already figured out London Whale before they had their conference call.
From my limited knowledge on the issue: Didn't he overextend himself? Then when other institutions/hedges found out, they started to take positions against him? Also, when it wasn't happening fast enough, didn't they leak the "London Whale" story to the press to accelerate the decline?

It's an interesting story line, that's for sure. Hedge Warfare.

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