JP Morgan Chase Smith Barney whatsis

[Freed Roger]

More power to you guys for having some investment knowledge. I have a financial background, but frankly don't know what I am doing on anything other than noticing macro economic trends (typically too late).

It's a very small % in this country that we can expect to have werewithal to manage their 401K. I know, I know, survival of the fittest and every person for themselves. But I think of my Dad and Grandparents - they wouldn't have had a clue - and I am glad they didn't have to waste their time on such bullshet in their lives. Social Security, and formerly the defined benefit pensions were the best thing for regular folk. Privatizing and 401K just gives more money to the JP Morgans of the world.

[AdmiralKird]

It's a totally different environment though than the ones your dad and grandparent's grew up in. The same system wouldn't work. There have been too many medical advances dedicated to sustaining 99.9% of people over 60 in a comfortable lifestyle, and the costs associated with that are astronomical. Back then when you had a medical issue in old age, you went to the doctor and they gave you a mass produce medication and told you to take it easy. The returns of a Social Security system just won't cover specialized medicine, hip replacements, heart transplants, prosthetics, etc. Wait til we have bionic eyes, permanent artificial organs, advanced, directed treatments and detection of cancer... It's going to be astronomical, and something like SS, a fund the government uses to invest in their own treasury bills and give you a return based on risk free interest rates, is not possibly going to be good enough.

And then you have ethical questions like, how much should society pay to keep everyone alive until they are 90? Is that right that 1% of patients under a socialized system would eat up 50% of the costs?

Plus SS was during a time when the United States experienced unprecedented growth that it won't have for probably another fifty years until the first version of a heavy lifting space elevator, loftstrom loop, makes massive amounts of reliable, clean energy - cheap. It's just not really fair to compare the two eras.

After doing so many tax returns this past year, I'll tell you its ridiculous the fees some people pay in their retirement. The problem is there are a lot of unethical financial advisers out there (Northwestern Mutual, Primerica, etc.) that sell you policies and mutual funds to get commission rather than just telling people they would be better off just placing 1/4 of their income in an ETF that tracks the overall market for 30 years.

But in the end, yes, people do have to go through more of a hassle, but they get to live longer and with a higher standard of living than any other aged population before them. So in the end its not so bad. You just hate to see people not have 100% transparency and honesty in the industry, especially when they use ignorance of the population to their advantage rather than educating them.

[slide_into_first]

I wouldn't buy and hold an ETF, a mutual fund, maybe.

[AdmiralKird]

Just don't get the ETF's with leverage.

[Arthur Dent]

The switch from pensions to 401k plans was needed to provide workers with extra money to pay for advanced health care? That's a pretty novel argument there.

In reality, of course, is that the bulk of health care costs for people over 60 are paid by Medicare and not out of Social Security checks. Medicare continues to be effective in the current era, though costs are increasing. The switch from defined benefit pension plans to 401ks, on the other hand, has been a disaster for most workers. Far from having more money, what with the great Wall Street investment returns, workers who thought they could retire are finding that their balances are utterly inadequate, having been forced to indivually bear market risk and make high stakes investing decisions, for which they are not qualified, by selecting among company offered funds often not picked with employees interests in mind. As more and more workers go into retirement age without access to traditional pensions, I expect there will be increasing distress, which may well force an expansion of Social Security.

[TimeForGuinness]

You aren't forced to have a 401k. If you have one, you aren't forced to invest in high risk funds.

[pioneer98]

The Wall Street Journal weighs in:
Key Void at Top for J.P. Morgan

Lots of interesting info in there. JPM was without a treasurer from October to March. The treasurer was responsible for reviewing their positions on a weekly basis. He had raised concerns about risks being taken in the London office before he "left abruptly for personal reasons" in October.

Irvin Goldman was that unit's Chief Risk Officer. He just joined the unit in October, but got booted after this latest boondoggle. He was the guy who had the brother in law that may have helped him get the job. That is not a big deal to me. What is more interesting to me is the fact that he got his start as a trader at Salomon Brothers in the 1980s. Whatever happened to Salomon Brothers? Oh, right.

Losses have continued to build by as much as $150 million a day since last week's announcement and could eventually total more than $5 billion.

First it was $2, then $3, now $5 billion. What's the over/under?

[pioneer98]

JPM stock is now down 18% since the news broke.

[JackofDiamonds]

The Wall Street Journal weighs in:
Key Void at Top for J.P. Morgan

Lots of interesting info in there. JPM was without a treasurer from October to March. The treasurer was responsible for reviewing their positions on a weekly basis. He had raised concerns about risks being taken in the London office before he "left abruptly for personal reasons" in October.

Irvin Goldman was that unit's Chief Risk Officer. He just joined the unit in October, but got booted after this latest boondoggle. He was the guy who had the brother in law that may have helped him get the job. That is not a big deal to me. What is more interesting to me is the fact that he got his start as a trader at Salomon Brothers in the 1980s. Whatever happened to Salomon Brothers? Oh, right.

Losses have continued to build by as much as $150 million a day since last week's announcement and could eventually total more than $5 billion.

First it was $2, then $3, now $5 billion. What's the over/under?

I'm going over/under at $7.5bn. The market is moving against their trade and it's too large and unwieldy a position to close. Just winding down this position is going to take some time.

[TimeForGuinness]

The Wall Street Journal weighs in:
Key Void at Top for J.P. Morgan

Lots of interesting info in there. JPM was without a treasurer from October to March. The treasurer was responsible for reviewing their positions on a weekly basis. He had raised concerns about risks being taken in the London office before he "left abruptly for personal reasons" in October.

Irvin Goldman was that unit's Chief Risk Officer. He just joined the unit in October, but got booted after this latest boondoggle. He was the guy who had the brother in law that may have helped him get the job. That is not a big deal to me. What is more interesting to me is the fact that he got his start as a trader at Salomon Brothers in the 1980s. Whatever happened to Salomon Brothers? Oh, right.

Losses have continued to build by as much as $150 million a day since last week's announcement and could eventually total more than $5 billion.

First it was $2, then $3, now $5 billion. What's the over/under?

I'm going over/under at $7.5bn. The market is moving against their trade and it's too large and unwieldy a position to close. Just winding down this position is going to take some time.

I'm going $12bn +/- 500m

EDIT: I like taking the high estimate and throwing another 50% on top of it.