"Aces" in baseball

valley_card22 · Post by **valley_card22** » March 6 07, 1:17 pm

My buddies and I were having this lunch time talk. How many true aces in baseball are there now? Every team has a "number 1", the guy who gets the ball opening day is generally number 1. However who are the true aces, the guy you'd want to pitch knowing you had to have a win or stop a losing streak. I divided it up into 4 catagories. True Aces, Fading aces, borderline aces and future aces. Tell me what you think.

True Aces: You know what your getting when these guys take the hill
Santana
Carp
Oswalt
Halladay

Fading Aces: Former Aces who still could give you a big game.
Randy Johnson
Curt Shilling
John Smoltz
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Pedro Martinez

Borderline Aces: Guys just on the cusp

Zambrono
Peavy
Ben Sheets
Willis
Wang (NYY)

Future Aces: Guys who have the stuff just havent done it long enough
Cole Hamels
Scott Kazmier
Lirerono (Min)

Im sure we were missed some names, but this is the list we came up with.

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 6 07, 1:29 pm

I'd take Wang off of any "ace" list.

I'd put Verlander and Felix Hernandez on the Future Aces list.

I'd take Glavine and Maddux off of the Former Aces list. Yes, they are former aces, however right now a dominant game from them just isn't likely. They may have the results (7 IP of 3 hit, shutout baseball), but are no more likely to do that than Jeff Suppan.

Harden is on the cusp, if he'd stay healthy for once. Beckett is on the cusp if he can get over the blister problems.

Brandon Webb deserves consideration. Eric Bedard and Jason Schmidt too.

Clemens probably should still be on the true ace list, if he plays.

--P--

Magneto · Post by **Magneto** » March 6 07, 1:31 pm

I'd add Matt Cain to future aces and Rich Harden, Felix the Kat.

JL21 · Post by **JL21** » March 6 07, 1:34 pm

I'd put Zambrano on the True Ace list, but it's so subjective. If Liriano comes back full strength or even close, he'll be on there too.

Post by **Bo Hart** » March 6 07, 1:37 pm

RC21 wrote:I'd put Zambrano on the True Ace list, but it's so subjective. If Liriano comes back full strength or even close, he'll be on there too.

I believe that Zambrano is a bonafide ace.

An ERA+ over 130 over a four year span is pretty darn impressive.

valley_card22 · Post by **valley_card22** » March 6 07, 1:41 pm

I didnt put Carlos on there because hes a head case. By that I mean he could blow up at any time. Aces keep their cool. Yes I agree about Verlander and Harden, like I said, just tossing some names around at lunch, I knew I forgot some deserving guys.

Maybe I was to easy on Glavine and Maddux. So you think there is no way they could go 8 innings 2 hits no runs anymore?

Jmodene · Post by **Jmodene** » March 6 07, 2:06 pm

Well, one way to look at Zambrano is to remember Joaquin Andujar, a two-time 20-game winner and, I think, a legitimate ace for a while there.

Like Zambrano, you were never 100% sure about Joaquin because of his volatility.

But there's no questioning either man's talent.

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 6 07, 2:19 pm

valley_card22 wrote:
Maybe I was to easy on Glavine and Maddux. So you think there is no way they could go 8 innings 2 hits no runs anymore?

I wouldn't say "no way", but like I said, it's no more likely than a Jeff Suppan or even a Jason Marquis doing the same.

--P--

valley_card22 · Post by **valley_card22** » March 6 07, 2:28 pm

So do you think Webb is an ace or borderline or future?

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 6 07, 2:31 pm

valley_card22 wrote:So do you think Webb is an ace or borderline or future?

Based on his overall performance, I'd have to say ace. He's had ERA+'s of 124 or better in every season. He's had two seasons above 150. He's had WHIP's of 1.15 or less in two seasons. He's never allowed more hits than IP. He threw 5 complete games and 3 shutouts last year on his way to a Cy Young.

You don't think of him as a classic shut-down guy, but the overall results look pretty nice.

--P--