GatewayRedbirds.com

Gashouse wrote:

ghostrunner wrote:Wisconsin and Michigan are pretty firmly in Hillary territory at the moment. And Ohio and Pennsylvania are still looking okay for her.

Agreed. I feel better when I look at places like 538 and their predictions. I wasn't thinking about specific states that Trump could realistically take, but just the general possibility.

Trump has twice as many likes as Clinton on Facebook. 538? Pfft.........

pioneer98 wrote:Michael Moore was on Maher the other night saying that he thinks Trump will win.

I'll be surprised if Trump doesn't win.

jim wrote:

pioneer98 wrote:Michael Moore was on Maher the other night saying that he thinks Trump will win.

I'll be surprised if Trump doesn't win.

You also said he's going to do well with Latinos.

jim wrote: Of course illegals have done all sorts of crimes, that's no different than saying US citizens are rapists and murderes because it is a fact that citizens have done that too.

If you think the average illegal(at least the ones that I have met from Mexico and Central America) is not a quality person, then you haven't gotten to know them. I have come to the realization that in many ways, both documented and undocumented people in this country are some of the most American people I have ever met. The American Dream - freedom, liberty, the chance to work hard and make a life for yourself and your family - as a group the Mexican and Central American people I know believe that as much as any citizen I know and given the opportunity would die for that. I look at this country and the decline of core family values - and then almost without exception I see the strong nucleus of family in Mexican families, and I can't help but think that's what this country is built on. Ask some average Mexican with kids what hobbies they have and they will look at you like you are from Mars. Raising their family, working. That's their hobby.

I just completely disagree with any characterization of Mexicans or Central Americans like this. On the whole, I actually have a very high regard for their culture and them as a people. To the level where I just absolutely admire them.

The American economy is built on the backs of immigrants. The beauty of this is that at the very bottom, the base of our economy and the lowest paying jobs, we end up with a group of people doing these jobs that have the brain power to be a doctor or engineer with a work ethic. They don't have the education, but the raw intelligence is there. Compare that to other countries without immigration. Who does those crappy jobs? The idiots, the people with bad work ethics. With a large immigrant population hungry for the American dream, we get ditch diggers with a brain who actually want to dig ditches, consequently better ditches dug faster. That's the base of who we are.

I agree that we have to control the border, and we have to know who is in the country, and we may have to deport people during that process. I'm not for amnesty.

When people say lies like this about a group of people it just ruins any chance of having a logical discussion over immigration.

well said. The comment you responded to was trash.

but why not consider some form of amnesty - such as for people brought here as kids?

jim wrote:All Trump voters are either ignoring or accepting racism. When he said Mexico is sending rapists and murderers, something which is objectively untrue, he intentionally courted racism and xenophobia..

It IS a fact that illegals have committed rape and murder.
If you think the average illegal is a quality person, you have been deceived.[/quote]

Of course illegals have done all sorts of crimes, that's no different than saying US citizens are rapists and murderes because it is a fact that citizens have done that too.

If you think the average illegal(at least the ones that I have met from Mexico and Central America) is not a quality person, then you haven't gotten to know them. I have come to the realization that in many ways, both documented and undocumented people in this country are some of the most American people I have ever met. The American Dream - freedom, liberty, the chance to work hard and make a life for yourself and your family - as a group the Mexican and Central American people I know believe that as much as any citizen I know and given the opportunity would die for that. I look at this country and the decline of core family values - and then almost without exception I see the strong nucleus of family in Mexican families, and I can't help but think that's what this country is built on. Ask some average Mexican with kids what hobbies they have and they will look at you like you are from Mars. Raising their family, working. That's their hobby.

I just completely disagree with any characterization of Mexicans or Central Americans like this. On the whole, I actually have a very high regard for their culture and them as a people. To the level where I just absolutely admire them.

The American economy is built on the backs of immigrants. The beauty of this is that at the very bottom, the base of our economy and the lowest paying jobs, we end up with a group of people doing these jobs that have the brain power to be a doctor or engineer with a work ethic. They don't have the education, but the raw intelligence is there. Compare that to other countries without immigration. Who does those crappy jobs? The idiots, the people with bad work ethics. With a large immigrant population hungry for the American dream, we get ditch diggers with a brain who actually want to dig ditches, consequently better ditches dug faster. That's the base of who we are.

I agree that we have to control the border, and we have to know who is in the country, and we may have to deport people during that process. I'm not for amnesty.

When people say lies like this about a group of people it just ruins any chance of having a logical discussion over immigration.[/quote]

Myles wrote:If you think the average illegal is a quality person, you have been deceived.

I worked on a concrete construction crew in Arizona for 6 months when I was 19. It was really hard. I was soft as hell when I started. I was the only white laborer on the crew. If it wasn't for the patience and guidance of the Mexican dudes I worked with, I would've been worthless. But they showed me what was up, how to do things, often with the extremely limited Spanish I knew and the limited English they knew. They brought me along. They showed me how to eat cactus in a tortilla with salsa. They crumpled up a tape measure and put it under a bucket and told me to lift the bucket and look at the dead rattlesnake. I caught scorpions, cut off the barb and put them in their lunch boxes. They invited me to their parties. I went to a strip club with the one guy who was my age. That was a night in my life that I won't forget.

About 5 months in, Arizona passed a measure that would subject all companies to criminal penalties if it were shown they had illegals on their books. The day after it went into effect, more than half the guys disappeared. Eventually the state govt backed off and some of them came back. My eyes were opened that summer and specifically in the days leading up to that bill taking effect, I gained some insight into the fear, sacrifice and bravery of illegal immigration. Some of those guys were very good people. Some weren't so good, but every single one of them was doing what I believe was the right thing for their lives and family. Choosing to work and strive rather than go for the easier money to be made in the drug trade or watch their children grow up in the same cycle of poverty that they grew up in. When you're an adult, you have a choice to make. You can take as much influence over your own life as you can to make it better. Those people didn't want to leave their families and their homes, but it is what it is. They had a choice and they made it. They broke the law, that makes them criminals in the most literal sense, but like Jim, I believe there are very few groups of people that represent what America should be better than latino immigrants. They made the hard, brave choice and most of the [expletive] cowards who call them rapists and criminals wouldn't have the balls to do what they've done.

Totally agree Jim. I have 3 siblings that are basically fluent in Spanish - took it all through high school and college, travel to Spanish speaking countries, etc. Two of them use Spanish in their jobs every day, and the 3rd one is married to someone who does. They all say the same thing - that these immigrants really are some of the most American people. They are ambitious and work hard. The majority of them are Christians! Many of them are devout. They share a lot of the same conservative, family values as Republicans. This is why it is so utterly baffling that Republicans don't embrace them. If they did, they could essentially send the Democratic party to the minor leagues.

Gary Johnson should be courting Latinos like crazy. He has a moderate stance on immigration, and he did that as a governor of a border state with a heavy immigrant population. And wasn't this supposed to be the lesson from Romney's loss? They needed to find a way to court these voters. They've gone in exactly the opposite direction from that.

pioneer98 wrote:Gary Johnson should be courting Latinos like crazy.

He is, at least according to the copy on his website.

Having served as Governor of a border state, Gary Johnson understands immigration. He understands that a robust flow of labor, regulated not by politics, but by the marketplace, is essential.

He understands that a bigger fence will only produce taller ladders and deeper tunnels, and that the flow of illegal immigrants across the border is not a consequence of too little security, but rather a legal immigration system that simply doesn’t work. Militarizing the border, bigger fences, and other punitive measures espoused by too many politicians are all simplistic “solutions” to a problem caused by artificial quotas, bureaucratic incompetence and the shameful failure of Congress to actually put in place an immigration system that matches reality.

Governor Johnson has long advocated a simplified and secure system of work visas by which willing workers and willing employers can meet in a robust labor marketplace efficiently and economically. Aspiring immigrants would undergo a background check, pay taxes and provide proof of employment.

Making it simpler and efficient to enter the U.S. legally will provide the greatest security possible, allowing law enforcement to focus its time and resources on the criminals and bad actors who are, in reality, a relatively small portion of those who are today entering the country illegally.

http://www.johnsonweld.com/immigration

Freed Roger wrote:

jim wrote: Of course illegals have done all sorts of crimes, that's no different than saying US citizens are rapists and murderes because it is a fact that citizens have done that too.

If you think the average illegal(at least the ones that I have met from Mexico and Central America) is not a quality person, then you haven't gotten to know them. I have come to the realization that in many ways, both documented and undocumented people in this country are some of the most American people I have ever met. The American Dream - freedom, liberty, the chance to work hard and make a life for yourself and your family - as a group the Mexican and Central American people I know believe that as much as any citizen I know and given the opportunity would die for that. I look at this country and the decline of core family values - and then almost without exception I see the strong nucleus of family in Mexican families, and I can't help but think that's what this country is built on. Ask some average Mexican with kids what hobbies they have and they will look at you like you are from Mars. Raising their family, working. That's their hobby.

I just completely disagree with any characterization of Mexicans or Central Americans like this. On the whole, I actually have a very high regard for their culture and them as a people. To the level where I just absolutely admire them.

The American economy is built on the backs of immigrants. The beauty of this is that at the very bottom, the base of our economy and the lowest paying jobs, we end up with a group of people doing these jobs that have the brain power to be a doctor or engineer with a work ethic. They don't have the education, but the raw intelligence is there. Compare that to other countries without immigration. Who does those crappy jobs? The idiots, the people with bad work ethics. With a large immigrant population hungry for the American dream, we get ditch diggers with a brain who actually want to dig ditches, consequently better ditches dug faster. That's the base of who we are.

I agree that we have to control the border, and we have to know who is in the country, and we may have to deport people during that process. I'm not for amnesty.

When people say lies like this about a group of people it just ruins any chance of having a logical discussion over immigration.

well said. The comment you responded to was trash.

but why not consider some form of amnesty - such as for people brought here as kids?

I misspoke, I am for amnesty in certain cases. I just didn't want to come across as a person who completely dismisses the idea that we need to send people back. I don't want to get into the details of where I draw that line, I just wanted to make sure that I do understand that argument.

This is v funny.