Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[tenniseleven]

I think a big problem with the abortion issue is that the Republicans just won't take a different way of getting their policy through...

is having an abortion something that should be avoided immensely? of course...if we start there I think we can all get an agreement, right?

after this, though, the Republicans drop the ball, taking a usual route of coming off like they're trying to tell others how to live their lives...

so the next question begins, how do we avoid abortion?

a lot of people just think that banning it is the way to go, without actually addressing the underlying causes or concerns...this happens in all issues really...and it gets everyone nowhere...

one is education, I think...I've met very many young persons who seem to be under the impression that just having sex once isn't enough to become pregnant...like you have to have a bunch of sex to increase the chances or something...
obviously we must all know that this isn't true, as all it takes is one time, for realz yall...but for some reason a lot of young persons are missing this...

also, I don't think many young persons know just how life-changing having a kid should be...it's a 24/7 job, no doubt...your chances of watching a tv show, watching a movie, or going out and having fun are just about zero...
I don't think many young persons know this either...

I don't think just having some health class teach stuff from the 60's or 80's is going to work...parents need to be involved, too, obviously, and I know that's a Republican ideal...responsibility...


I think some honesty and trust also need to be developed between partisan groups...for example, the US government propagated the banning of marijuana using a film called Reefer Madness....I watched an interview/documentary about the guy who basically illustrated the 50's attitude towards conservatism and drugs as part of the government...
he flat out said that even he wasn't sure he believed all the stuff the government was releasing in regards to the effects of marijuana, but that it got the end result HE wanted so he didn't really care if it was true or not...
so you have our own government trying to instill policy based upon releasing propaganda that even the people making up the propaganda may not fully believe...
where's the commitment to honesty and truth there?

[BW23]

clement....good post. We disagree on all of our political views, I'm sure, but I can't disagree with much you've said there. I've said most of that off and on all day.

I'll just add that while McCain has hammered Obama's lack of experience, Obama's camp hammered change (still are) and that there needs to be a difference from the Washington establishment. Both guys picked exactly what they were hammering their opponents on.

And while I've brought up the smaller government ideal, I've also said I don't expect McCain to actually be the guy that follows through with it. But I wanted Fred. He's probably the only one that might have stuck to this. But you're right, the disagreement is over what I want government to do or not do.

[tenniseleven]

if USA would just be smart enough to elect an independent like Ron Paul then all would be well...or at least a little better...

[ghostrunner]

I don't think it's fair to label her with any sort of anti-intellectual label, and the idea that Republicans are pushing that is unfair I think. She's clearly pretty intelligent. She's been a city council person, a mayor and now a governor. I don't what sort of ignorance she's supposed to have on Iraq. She was apparently in Kuwait last year visiting Alaskan troops and her son is going to Iraq next month. As far as not knowing what the Vice President does, I don't even know what they do. It seems to depend on the President. Up until Cheney, mostly they've shown up for photos, as far as I can tell.

[Richie Allen]

one is education, I think...I've met very many young persons who seem to be under the impression that just having sex once isn't enough to become pregnant...like you have to have a bunch of sex to increase the chances or something...
obviously we must all know that this isn't true, as all it takes is one time, for realz yall...but for some reason a lot of young persons are missing this...

also, I don't think many young persons know just how life-changing having a kid should be...it's a 24/7 job, no doubt...your chances of watching a tv show, watching a movie, or going out and having fun are just about zero...
I don't think many young persons know this either...

I don't think just having some health class teach stuff from the 60's or 80's is going to work...parents need to be involved, too, obviously, and I know that's a Republican ideal...responsibility...

I agree with the point that we need to educate our young. And, yes, that should go beyond Health class.

On the other hand (not disagreeing with you, just pointing this out) young people's stupidity should not be the crutch that we rely on to blame for the abortion problem. We should expect a certain amount of stupidity on their part. They're kids.

Us, on the other hand, and more specifically our government, are adults and should behave as such. Can you imagine what our children are thinking when they're subjected to the typical political debate. The abortion debate for example. WTF! No wonder kids today think that adults are a bunch of idiots. We should be able to address such an issue and convince our kids that we know what is right and wrong. We're nowhere close to that, as far as I'm concerned.

[sighyoung]

A few thoughts:

1. I hope the experience issue is dead, and here's why:

- The idea that the office of the President should be solely held by lawyers who went on to serve 30 years in the Senate or 4-8 years as governor has it's roots in...well, nowhere - aside from bad tradition. It's supposed to be a government of by and for the people. I would hope that means teachers, auto workers, policemen, engineers, soldiers, doctors, and lawyers can occupy higher offices if their fellow citizens think they are worthy. Smart, capable people come from everywhere. Almost no governor has foreign policy experience, and almost no Senator has executive experience. Obama and Palin deserve slack here. Some players get called up from the farm team early if they have special abilities. Decision making ability is what matters. Obama has made admirable decisions about what to do with his talent, and Palin has apparently done a lot in two short years to reverse some cronyism and corruption in Alaska. The boldness of her decisions does a lot to make up for the number of them.

- The size or importance of the state is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Joe Biden is from Delaware, which has about 200,000 more people than Alaska. Bill Clinton was from Arkansas.

- Dan Quayle had about 12 years of experience when he became VP. Here's to experience.

I pretty much agree with this, while I also recognize the legitimacy of raising experience as a campaign issue. Two forms of experience that you don't mention, though, are 1) Palin's lack of national media exposure, and 2) McCain's own lack of knowledge about Palin, whom he's barely met. As experienced as she is in party politics, she's going to need a very steep learning curve in the months ahead. And there may be plenty of surprises, including for the McCain campaign itself.

2. This is a good pick for McCain, desperate or not. You could characterize Romney as desperate, or Huckabee. The fact is that McCain has very much pleased his base, while picking someone the average voter (who isn't following this everyday) can relate to. He may pick up a few women and Democrats in the process. The Democrats should be concerned. You can sniff at the pick all you like, but voters will like it and that's what McCain is trying to accomplish. She's going to excite Republicans in the same way Obama excites Democrats.

The pick is good in the short run, but honestly, the jury's out about the long-term impact. McCain definitely energizes his base with this choice, but frankly, this is a base he should have energized already in the primaries. I'm doubting that she cuts into the support of conservative Democrats and women, but we'll see--so much depends on how she handles the increased media scrutiny, as well as a range of political subjects she hasn't had to address as an Alaskan politician.

Finally, we'll all see how these two campaigns are defining "change" in very different ways. Obama is stressing caution and judiciousness as a departure from the incumbent administration. (This is why I think Biden, as a senior senator with economic and foreign policy knowledge, was a good choice as a running mate, although he has a history of foot-in-mouth disease. But hey, I favored Dodd over all the other primary candidates.) McCain is picking a woman who has some reputation as a reform-minded governor, and the choice was quite a risk. But I think it's too early to tell what we'll be thinking within a couple of weeks about the choice.

[Numbers]

Consider this spam. I've already shared my thoughts, just wanted to help push a thread to 100 pages.

[Richie Allen]

I pretty much agree with this, while I also recognize the legitimacy of raising experience as a campaign issue. Two forms of experience that you don't mention, though, are 1) Palin's lack of national media exposure, and 2) McCain's own lack of knowledge about Palin, whom he's barely met. As experienced as she is in party politics, she's going to need a very steep learning curve in the months ahead. And there may be plenty of surprises, including for the McCain campaign itself.

The pick is good in the short run, but honestly, the jury's out about the long-term impact. McCain definitely energizes his base with this choice, but frankly, this is a base he should have energized already in the primaries. I'm doubting that she cuts into the support of conservative Democrats and women, but we'll see--so much depends on how she handles the increased media scrutiny, as well as a range of political subjects she hasn't had to address as an Alaskan politician.

Finally, we'll all see how these two campaigns are defining "change" in very different ways. Obama is stressing caution and judiciousness as a departure from the incumbent administration. (This is why I think Biden, as a senior senator with economic and foreign policy knowledge, was a good choice as a running mate, although he has a history of foot-in-mouth disease. But hey, I favored Dodd over all the other primary candidates.) McCain is picking a woman who has some reputation as a reform-minded governor, and the choice was quite a risk. But I think it's too early to tell what we'll be thinking within a couple of weeks about the choice.

Thanks for adding some level-headedness to this thread. I've thought throughout most of the day that the idea of grading this choice today was a bit premature. Much like evaluating a unknown draft choice. We've basically been grading the choice of a woman (surprising), a conservative (helps secure the base) and a young politician (may help somewhat and may hurt somewhat). But we'll have to wait and see how things actually play out as the nation becomes more aware of who she really is (in addition to being a young, conservative woman).

[TimeForGuinness]

While I'm all about cutting corruption in the government...the "bridge to nowhere" was going to get stopped whether she was in office or not. That bridge was catching so much flak from around the country, that sooner or later it was going to be cut.

I do applaud her for getting it done though.

[TimeForGuinness]

btw, did you guys know that using a condom or birth control is akin to abortion? well, it is...

as is that other dirty thing that guys do by themselves, quite often, apparently...

Maybe I'm drunk and I don't know if you are serious or not, but I don't believe this at all.

If this is serious, then do I get to blame God for that wet dream as an abortion?