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dmarx114 wrote:

Fat Strat wrote:

MrCrowesGarden wrote:That’s kind of what Goold said this morning. He also went back on the Carlos Gonzalez [expletive].

That [expletive] is real. We might as well accept it.

Don't understand it, but the Cards are really feeding that to Goold and it would not surprise me at all if it was the path we took, considering the Cards past success with Berkman and Beltran as place fillers.

But there were open spots that Berkman and Beltran needed to fill.

We have an OF logjam already. Cargo just doesn't make any sense.

Fat Strat wrote:

MrCrowesGarden wrote:I would 100% take Donaldson over any non-Stanton Marlins OFer. Again—much of the appeal of Yelich and Ozuna are the contracts. I get that contracts matter, but the Cardinals are at a point where talent ought to mean more.

I'm not really seeing the talent difference here, and you know that I really like Donaldson.

If Donaldson was likely to be a 6-8 WAR player going forward, I would agree. But, he's not. He's 32 and going to cost 3x what Ozuna and Yelich cost + probably a comparable prospect package. Let's say that Donaldson doesn't fall off any cliffs, just shows his age, and settles in at a Matt Holliday like 4-5 WAR average value into his next contract. It's actually a pretty good comparison, I think... Holliday was a consistent 6-7 WAR producer in his 20's, not unlike Donaldson, who plays a more premium position. In his 30's, Holliday settled in at a still excellent 4 WAR average and never crossed 4.5 again.

Yelich, at a mere 25 years, is already a consistent 4.5 WAR player with upside for more.

I've never really thought Ozuna was at that level, so I won't make that argument. He did, though, produce a WAR very close to 5 last year. And has another year just below 4, so he's certainly capable of being a 3-5 WAR player on average now that he's fully in his prime.

Unless you think Donaldson will defy the age odds, there's every reason to think that Yelich at least can match him, and considering upside, injuries, contract status, and even value of position (if Yelich is a CF'er for us), I have to go toward Yelich.

And, again, I like Donaldson.

Fat Strat wrote:

dmarx114 wrote:

Fat Strat wrote:

MrCrowesGarden wrote:That’s kind of what Goold said this morning. He also went back on the Carlos Gonzalez [expletive].

That [expletive] is real. We might as well accept it.

Don't understand it, but the Cards are really feeding that to Goold and it would not surprise me at all if it was the path we took, considering the Cards past success with Berkman and Beltran as place fillers.

But there were open spots that Berkman and Beltran needed to fill.

We have an OF logjam already. Cargo just doesn't make any sense.

I'm not arguing for him at all. I'm just saying that the Cards are clearly interested for reasons that seem entirely unexplainable.

MrCrowesGarden wrote:You are selling Donaldson short. From 2015-2017, only Trout and Bryant have been more valuable as position players.

And to make the simplified argument, he has power that Yelich doesn’t. Yelich looks a lot like the hitters we already have. His well rounded game is good but there’s nothing that makes me think he’s a cornerstone in the lineup. At some point—say, right now— that matters.

Currently on 31BX
12:44
Derrick Goold says the Stanton delay is on the Marlins not Stanton. Think they’re trying to extract Helios from SFG or still trying to lure LAD?

Eno Sarris
12:44
Yeah and SF really wants to keep that young guy, he's the only prospect they really have.

JL21 wrote:Holy [expletive], is Yelich ever being undersold here.

He's going to be 26 next year and he's had three years at 4.5 WAR or better. Here's a list of every hitter that's had 3 years of 4.5 WAR or better before age 26, since 1970, along with the number of times they've done it.

6 times
Mike Trout

5 times
Albert Pujols
Alex Rodriguez
Andruw Jones
Cal Ripken
Ken Griffey Jr.
Rickey Henderson

4 times
Barry Bonds
Cesar Cedeno
David Wright
Evan Longoria
George Brett
Grady Sizemore
Jason Heyward
Willie Randolph

3 times
Bobby Grich
Bryce Harper
Carl Crawford
Chet Lemon
Christian Yelich
Don Mattingly
Frank Thomas
Gary Carter
Hanley Ramirez
Johnny Bench
Jose Reyes
Kris Bryant
Manny Machado
Miguel Cabrera
Mookie Betts
Nomar Garciaparra
Robin Ventura
Ryan Zimmerman
Scott Rolen
Ted Simmons
Tim Raines
Troy Tulowitzki
Vladimir Guerrero

39 guys have done that in 47 years. And check out the names on that list. Even starting at the 3 times guys- let's skip the 4+ times guys... The 3 times list is littered with big-time contributors, some Hall of Famers, some Hall of Very Good, and pretty much no future busts. I would certainly call those guys cornerstones in a lineup.

Now, don't get me wrong. Donaldson is the better acquisition for 2018- he won't cost as much in return because of his contract. And he's a better impact bat. I'm not making that argument. But this talk of Yelich being Piscotty Part II is just silly. Even the good version of Piscotty, because you can't just wipe away his defense and baserunning.

phins wrote:
I simply do not understand how fans do not seem to think Yelich is a star. He's quite honestly a guy with a chance at the HOF if he unlocks his power more with a swing change to get more fly balls. As is, he's an All-Star level player in his prime.