Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[jim]

I still don't see what your point is with what you highlighted. I know what the First Amendment says already. I didn't need you to quote it.

Someone said:

My Christian beliefs drive everything that I do and everything that I am. Does that spill into politics? Of course. Why wouldn't it?

Politics is about governing, and governing is about legislation. If your Christian beliefs spill into politics (i.e. legislation), then it seems to run into a wall with this part of the 1st Ammendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

The authors could not have been more clear, keep religion out of government and government will stay out of religion.

[BW23]

But I would like to keep most of the money I earn.

I've gathered from your comments both in this thread and in the past that you are a teacher. Did you happen to catch Obama's comment during his speech about making a concerted effort to boost teacher pay? Also, under his economic (tax) plan (in a chart posted many pages ago), I would assume that it would call for better tax rates for you in your current tax bracket.

So economically for you, Obama might seem to be the right choice. I can understand though if you do not agree with his social/moral stances, or with his broader economic plan.

I do work in education. But I don't need the feds giving me more money. And really, what I do day in and day out really has little to do with my political views. In fact, government does more to mess up education than anything else. I make more than most of those I work with, and I'd say 80% of them are also Republicans. They'd all want higher wages as well, but not at the cost of Obama.

So yeah....it's the other stuff we have problems with.

[fanforever]

So who is the party of Change now?

If this is about selecting a female VP candidate, I think that's confusing Obama's message of "change". I believe his message is about trying new policies, and change the way government goes about it's business. Not that a minority or woman might be president.

Mac's choice of Palin is a Great pick IMO. Conservative, pro life, outdoorswoman, smart, tough. If just 5% of women switch from Obama to McCain he will win easily IMO in November.

When Biden attacks her in the debates he will be labeled as “mean spirited”, which he is, and it will cost Obama dearly. Very clever. So Obama picks an old Washington insider, and McCain picks a fresh, new, outsider.

Looks like John now has the “Change America Needs”, and Obama has the old Washington status quo establishment. I love it.

Good job John McCain. This man is definitely ready to lead IMO

[jim]

So who is the party of Change now?

If this is about selecting a female VP candidate, I think that's confusing Obama's message of "change". I believe his message is about trying new policies, and change the way government goes about it's business. Not that a minority or woman might be president.

Mac's choice of Palin is a Great pick IMO. Conservative, pro life, outdoorswoman, smart, tough. If just 5% of women switch from Obama to McCain he will win easily IMO in November.

When Biden attacks her in the debates he will be labeled as “mean spirited”, which he is, and it will cost Obama dearly. Very clever. So Obama picks an old Washington insider, and McCain picks a fresh, new, outsider.

Looks like John now has the “Change America Needs”, and Obama has the old Washington status quo establishment. I love it.

Good job John McCain. This man is definitely ready to lead IMO

I strongly disagree with that statement. Her environmental stances are abysmal, and I will not let her or John McCain into my club. Neither will the Sierra Club or the League of Conservation Voters.

I called this an hour ago.... the "Sportsman for McCain" bumperstickers are probably already on the press.

[BW23]

I still don't see what your point is with what you highlighted. I know what the First Amendment says already. I didn't need you to quote it.

Someone said:

My Christian beliefs drive everything that I do and everything that I am. Does that spill into politics? Of course. Why wouldn't it?

Politics is about governing, and governing is about legislation. If your Christian beliefs spill into politics (i.e. legislation), then it seems to run into a wall with this part of the 1st Ammendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

The authors could not have been more clear, keep religion out of government and government will stay out of religion.

Oh, okay. How about this? No Christians can vote.

Easy. Solved. Feel better? Liberals will win every time now!

Or is it okay if someone's beliefs and stances sway to the Liberal side? I'm sure it is.

I'm sorry, but I can't separate my beliefs. God is the most important thing in my life and my family's life. I don't think I'm trying to establish a religion or that I'm prohibiting the free exercise thereof. I'm not forcing the Bible on anyone. I'm not trying to have the Bible taught to everyone.

Everyone's life experiences make up their beliefs. I will go along with those who share these with me. And if it happens to bleed into the moral fabric of this country, so be it.

But it's ridiculous to suggest that I'm violating the first amendment. I expect things like that from some here. I guess you never know.

You can see why I hate these conversations. People aren't going to change, and people that have gotten along when talking baseball no longer do.

I'm going home.

[Popeye_Card]

So who is the party of Change now?

If this is about selecting a female VP candidate, I think that's confusing Obama's message of "change". I believe his message is about trying new policies, and change the way government goes about it's business. Not that a minority or woman might be president.

Mac's choice of Palin is a Great pick IMO. Conservative, pro life, outdoorswoman, smart, tough. If just 5% of women switch from Obama to McCain he will win easily IMO in November.

When Biden attacks her in the debates he will be labeled as “mean spirited”, which he is, and it will cost Obama dearly. Very clever. So Obama picks an old Washington insider, and McCain picks a fresh, new, outsider.

Looks like John now has the “Change America Needs”, and Obama has the old Washington status quo establishment. I love it.

Good job John McCain. This man is definitely ready to lead IMO

I am baffled by this entire line of thinking.

I personally don't think VP choices should be about who is going to help you win an election. I think it should be about who is the best choice to preside over the senate, and be next in line if (god forbid) something happens to the President.

If McCain wins, Palin is next in line to be President of the most powerful military and economy in the world. As historic as that would be, I do have some pretty serious qualms about her being able to take over that job. Maybe I'm way off base with that, but that's how I feel. Not that I'm going to be voting for McCain anyway.

[jim]

Yeah I think I'm going to bow out too...

I'm not trying to make enemies, but I do strongly believe in the 1st ammend. It seems to me that things like Civil unions, abortion, etc... are really Christian legislation. I can't accept that.

[Leroy]

If McCain wins, Palin is next in line to be President of the most powerful military and economy in the world. As historic as that would be, I do have some pretty serious qualms about her being able to take over that job. Maybe I'm way off base with that, but that's how I feel. Not that I'm going to be voting for McCain anyway.

But it doesn't raise any concerns with Obama?

[JG1982]

So who is the party of Change now?

If this is about selecting a female VP candidate, I think that's confusing Obama's message of "change". I believe his message is about trying new policies, and change the way government goes about it's business. Not that a minority or woman might be president.

Mac's choice of Palin is a Great pick IMO. Conservative, pro life, outdoorswoman, smart, tough. If just 5% of women switch from Obama to McCain he will win easily IMO in November.

When Biden attacks her in the debates he will be labeled as “mean spirited”, which he is, and it will cost Obama dearly. Very clever. So Obama picks an old Washington insider, and McCain picks a fresh, new, outsider.

Looks like John now has the “Change America Needs”, and Obama has the old Washington status quo establishment. I love it.

Good job John McCain. This man is definitely ready to lead IMO

I am baffled by this entire line of thinking.

I personally don't think VP choices should be about who is going to help you win an election. I think it should be about who is the best choice to preside over the senate, and be next in line if (god forbid) something happens to the President.

If McCain wins, Palin is next in line to be President of the most powerful military and economy in the world. As historic as that would be, I do have some pretty serious qualms about her being able to take over that job. Maybe I'm way off base with that, but that's how I feel. Not that I'm going to be voting for McCain anyway.

I think your qualms are valid

That being said, I feel the same way about Barack Obama, and he'll be the FIRST in command, not 2nd after a possible death of the President..

[TimeForGuinness]

To be honest, I found this debate very informative...I wasn't trying to make enemies or say that someone was wrong. I consider you all my friends and don't view this discussion in hampering our abilities in discussing something that is more important than politics: baseball.

Cheers to those who came into this with an open mind and could freely discuss the issues without attacking other posters and their views.

TFG