Tebow Talk

[Socnorb11]

Right now, the Broncos do not have a QB with the chance to become elite in today's NFL. Since it's all but impossible to trade for or sign those guys via free agency, the quickest route to getting one, is by drafting one. Since your draft strategy is apparently "Hindsight is the only thing that matters, scouting is bull [expletive]" I guess you shouldn't care where your draft pick is. Myself, I would prefer to pick as high as possible to give my scouts the best chance at getting the perceived best quarterback available.

Aaron Rodgers was taken 24th.

Brees was a 2nd round pick.

Roethlisberger was picked 11th.

Brady was picked 199th.

Kurt Warner came from the Arena League.


Really, the Manning brothers are the exception.

[Socnorb11]

Even if that meant forfeiting a playoff berth and rooting for a winless season

Honestly I don't know. I think yes. The problem is that Denver realistically was never as bad as their early record indicated. They would have had to actively tank because that defense is nasty. I wouldn't actively tank a season. However, if I was the Colts or a team like that, I'd certainly rather go 1-15 than 6-10 or something like that.

You're about 3 weeks behind. The defense isn't nasty.

[thrill]

Right now, the Broncos do not have a QB with the chance to become elite in today's NFL. Since it's all but impossible to trade for or sign those guys via free agency, the quickest route to getting one, is by drafting one. Since your draft strategy is apparently "Hindsight is the only thing that matters, scouting is bull [expletive]" I guess you shouldn't care where your draft pick is. Myself, I would prefer to pick as high as possible to give my scouts the best chance at getting the perceived best quarterback available.

Aaron Rodgers was taken 24th.

Brees was a 2nd round pick.

Roethlisberger was picked 11th.

Brady was picked 199th.

Kurt Warner came from the Arena League.


Really, the Manning brothers are the exception.

Why even pay scouts then? Just put a big list of players on a board and throw darts at it to make your picks because scouting is irrelevant! You can get elite players just as easily in the late rounds. After all, that's where Tom Brady was drafted! And Albert Pujols!

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Why even pay scouts then?

Nobody is saying to do away with scouts. You're the one calling for tanking seasons to get a guy the scouts say is good.

Here's how I feel the importance goes: Winning > Scouts opinions
You're saying the opposite: Scouts opinions (are so great of Luck) > Winning

The prior doesn't mean ignore scouts. It simply means ....

[/youtube]

[vinsanity]

Aaron Rodgers was taken 24th.
Brees was a 2nd round pick.
Roethlisberger was picked 11th.
Brady was picked 199th.
Kurt Warner came from the Arena League.
Really, the Manning brothers are the exception.

Troy Aikman was #1 overall as was John Elway. Jim Kelly and Dan Marino were both 1st rounders as well.

I don't think anyone's suggesting the #1 overall player is always the best. Or you have to be a 1st round QB to be elite. Often teams have one need over another and while they may not have an elite QB have one reason or another to dislike a QB and may or may not be right.

But the Mannings, Rivers, Marino, Kelly, Aikman, Elway, Rodgers, Big Ben, Brees, McNabb, Steve Young, Matt Ryan have all been very, very successful QB's who've been drafted in the first 32 picks (Brees was the 1st pick of the Second Round).

Warner and Brady seem to be more of the exception.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Aaron Rodgers was taken 24th.
Brees was a 2nd round pick.
Roethlisberger was picked 11th.
Brady was picked 199th.
Kurt Warner came from the Arena League.
Really, the Manning brothers are the exception.

Troy Aikman was #1 overall as was John Elway. Jim Kelly and Dan Marino were both 1st rounders as well.

I don't think anyone's suggesting the #1 overall player is always the best. Or you have to be a 1st round QB to be elite. Often teams have one need over another and while they may not have an elite QB have one reason or another to dislike a QB and may or may not be right.

But the Mannings, Rivers, Marino, Kelly, Aikman, Elway, Rodgers, Big Ben, Brees, McNabb, Steve Young, Matt Ryan have all been very, very successful QB's who've been drafted in the first 32 picks (Brees was the 1st pick of the Second Round).

Warner and Brady seem to be more of the exception.

For every QB you just named, I am sure you can find a bust as well. It's not a guarantee. That is the point. And it certainly isn't, imo, enough of a guarantee that you would be better off throwing away a division winning season to go after a QB in the draft.

[thrill]

Aaron Rodgers was taken 24th.
Brees was a 2nd round pick.
Roethlisberger was picked 11th.
Brady was picked 199th.
Kurt Warner came from the Arena League.
Really, the Manning brothers are the exception.

Troy Aikman was #1 overall as was John Elway. Jim Kelly and Dan Marino were both 1st rounders as well.

I don't think anyone's suggesting the #1 overall player is always the best. Or you have to be a 1st round QB to be elite. Often teams have one need over another and while they may not have an elite QB have one reason or another to dislike a QB and may or may not be right.

But the Mannings, Rivers, Marino, Kelly, Aikman, Elway, Rodgers, Big Ben, Brees, McNabb, Steve Young, Matt Ryan have all been very, very successful QB's who've been drafted in the first 32 picks (Brees was the 1st pick of the Second Round).

Warner and Brady seem to be more of the exception.

For every QB you just named, I am sure you can find a bust as well. It's not a guarantee. That is the point. And it certainly isn't, imo, enough of a guarantee that you would be better off throwing away a division winning season to go after a QB in the draft.

I guess I don't see the point of winning a bad division with no chance to win a Superbowl. Keeping Tebow at the helm will waste the next season and every subsequent season where he is your starter by giving you almost no chance to win the Superbowl. Especially when the other parts of the team are so good (defense, running game).

[vinsanity]

For every QB you just named, I am sure you can find a bust as well. It's not a guarantee. That is the point. And it certainly isn't, imo, enough of a guarantee that you would be better off throwing away a division winning season to go after a QB in the draft.

Right, but even though early QB's can bust like Russel and Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch etc etc, the notion you can easily identify a franchise QB by waiting to the 6th round is absurd. I'm suggesting that first round QBs are significantly more likely to succeed than 4th or 5th round or undrafted QB's, not that highly drafted QB's are guarantee at all.

For every Warner and Brady there are 10 Curtis Painter's, Dan Orlovsky's or other backup QB's who are just roster fodder.

I'm not necessarily saying I would tank either, but I sure as hell wouldn't pass on a good QB because I had Tim Tebow.

[thrill]

For every Warner and Brady there are 10 Curtis Painter's, Dan Orlovsky's or other backup QB's who are just roster fodder.

As a Bears fan, allow me to submit Craig Krenzel, Caleb Hanie, Todd Collins, etc etc.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

So, say you throw 2011 away and make up your mind instead of letting Tebow play in week 6 you are just going to mail it in - despite how wrong that is for a professional sports team to do and how against the rules it is or should be. Then, you get Luck. Lucks a decent-like QB, no John Elway but no Ryan Leaf either. 2012 ends with a 8-8 record. Then, week 2 of the 2013 season, Von Miller blows out his knee/suffers a concussion/etc. Do you tank that season as well to try to get the #1 pick again?

When does it end? At what point do you just play the game, do your best, fight like hell to get a SB ring and use the draft to supplement your team as you see necessary? Even if that means taking an Aaron Rodgers instead of an Alex Smith.