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ZigZagCardsFan wrote:

Farewell Friends wrote:I'm more annoyed that they allowed a parade of really good relievers to waltz on by.

In the offseason following the trade deadline where 10+ good relievers were dealt for a whole lot of not much and we sat on our hands.

Yeah, we clearly don't want to get into the reliever game again. It's almost like if we get burned once then not even will we not touch the oven again, we won't even go into the kitchen.

1) We get burned on Heyward, so now we can't trade for a player who has less than 1 year of control remaining.
2) We get burned on Leake, so now we can't sign a starting pitcher for more than a 1-2 year deal.
3) We get burned on Cecil and Oh (sort of), so now we can't sign or trade for relievers because they're too volatile.

When unique situations or truly desperate needs coincide with discount opportunities -- Fowler (need, relatively discounted price), Perala (need, full price but relatively short term), and Ozuna (need, relatively discounted price) come to mind -- we'll try to take them, but only so that we remain on the edge of contention. We very clearly have no desire to do what the Nats, Cubs, Dbacks, Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees regularly do and acquire great pieces to push themselves over the top.

Frankly, we're just a very, very conservative organization. That's true from our drafting department all the way up through our player acquisition strategies. They rarely take chances on anything, which (as we so often say) is a great way to be mediocre. If we didn't do such an unbelievable job of developing high floor players, we would look a lot like the Reds -- pockets of contention surrounded by a ton of 75-80 win seasons.

Fat Strat wrote:
That's not even a rant. That's just a fairly concise, relatively objective analysis of what the last 3-4 years have been for the Cards and Cards fans.

i'm guessing they were trying to be conciliatory to get it published/acknowledged by goold. he sometimes comes off as butthurt.

It's not true that the Cardinals haven't been willing to take risks on superstars (which is about 75% of what the guy is ranting about).

They have certainly been willing. It just hasn't worked out.

Fat Strat wrote:

ZigZagCardsFan wrote:

Farewell Friends wrote:I'm more annoyed that they allowed a parade of really good relievers to waltz on by.

In the offseason following the trade deadline where 10+ good relievers were dealt for a whole lot of not much and we sat on our hands.

Yeah, we clearly don't want to get into the reliever game again. It's almost like we get burned once and we're afraid not even to touch the oven, we won't even go into the kitchen.

only raw items now

Radbird wrote:

Fat Strat wrote:

MinorLeagueGuy wrote:The amount of fallback options we have in the current pen is scary. I'd hate to play(pitch) underwhelming baseball in Apr\May watching Luke attempt to get his "legs" back. Flounder in June, while we watch a carousel of Brebbia\Tui\Lyons\Cecil(yep) try to pitch us through 27 outs. Then lurk on the fringe of the trade market, hunting for a marginal upgrade that MIGHT fall to you on the waiver wire...WONT IT BE SO EXCITING?? game over

I have posted about this before, but also consider who is managing all that. Even the club has admitted that Matheny is not the best at handling a pen that doesn’t have set roles. Outside of Gregerson as the defacto “as of today” closer, no one else really has a defined role. Is Lyons the lefty specialist or the fireman? Cecil the lefty guy or the 8th inning guy, since Lyons is the fireman? Or is Tui the 8th inning guy, or fireman because Lyons is the 8th inning guy, or the longman because Cecil is the 8th and Lyons is the fireman?

I am sure that they will come out of spring training with some definition and that will last about 3 games and then typical bullpen hell will break loose and Matheny will flounder until July when we trade a 1st rounder for a Chisek type.

Any chance Maddux can have a positive impact on ‘pen usage?

Maybe! I have no idea. Just depends on the influence that Matheny gives him. I'm sure Goold will have some stuff about that when ST hits because he's been talking consistently about the "color by numbers" pen issue with Matheny.

If Matheny is smart (questionable) and humble (likely), he'll realize his own faults with pen usage and let Maddux and whoever the pen coach is just handle all of that.

Jocephus wrote:

Fat Strat wrote:

ZigZagCardsFan wrote:

Farewell Friends wrote:I'm more annoyed that they allowed a parade of really good relievers to waltz on by.

In the offseason following the trade deadline where 10+ good relievers were dealt for a whole lot of not much and we sat on our hands.

Yeah, we clearly don't want to get into the reliever game again. It's almost like we get burned once and we're afraid not even to touch the oven, we won't even go into the kitchen.

only raw items now

Yeah... trusting mostly in a high floor system has felt like we've settled for gas station sushi. Piscotty, Grichuk, Wong, Wacha -- that one time "next future core" -- has left us with little more than a mild case of salmonella.

Fat Strat wrote:

Radbird wrote:

Fat Strat wrote:

MinorLeagueGuy wrote:The amount of fallback options we have in the current pen is scary. I'd hate to play(pitch) underwhelming baseball in Apr\May watching Luke attempt to get his "legs" back. Flounder in June, while we watch a carousel of Brebbia\Tui\Lyons\Cecil(yep) try to pitch us through 27 outs. Then lurk on the fringe of the trade market, hunting for a marginal upgrade that MIGHT fall to you on the waiver wire...WONT IT BE SO EXCITING?? game over

I have posted about this before, but also consider who is managing all that. Even the club has admitted that Matheny is not the best at handling a pen that doesn’t have set roles. Outside of Gregerson as the defacto “as of today” closer, no one else really has a defined role. Is Lyons the lefty specialist or the fireman? Cecil the lefty guy or the 8th inning guy, since Lyons is the fireman? Or is Tui the 8th inning guy, or fireman because Lyons is the 8th inning guy, or the longman because Cecil is the 8th and Lyons is the fireman?

I am sure that they will come out of spring training with some definition and that will last about 3 games and then typical bullpen hell will break loose and Matheny will flounder until July when we trade a 1st rounder for a Chisek type.

Any chance Maddux can have a positive impact on ‘pen usage?

Maybe! I have no idea. Just depends on the influence that Matheny gives him. I'm sure Goold will have some stuff about that when ST hits because he's been talking consistently about the "color by numbers" pen issue with Matheny.

If Matheny is smart (questionable) and humble (likely), he'll realize his own faults with pen usage and let Maddux and whoever the pen coach is just handle all of that.

i wouldn't suggest reed is a jansen or chapman or anything but i think i like him better than tui and a few others. i found these answers odd and another example of the FO covering MM at all costs and above needs. maybe i'm just a hater and way off base.

Was there an official reason given why the Cards did not sign Reed, who wanted to play in the Midwest and only required 2 years?
by George 3:59 PM

There was no comment from the team. They declined comment. From reporting around that, I have been told that there were somewhat concerned about Reed's workload and what that could mean in the coming years and years of his contract.
by Derrick Goold 4:00 PM

Reeds workload, thats funny, Have they not seen Mathenys overuse of Siegrist and Maness the last few years?
by Cardfaninva 4:03 PM

Stop, for a moment, and consider that informed their decision.
by Derrick Goold 4:03 PM

I'll believe the "workload" theory when I hear it from the team, rather than "sources".

Then you’ll never hear it. This team bunkers as much as anyone. This is basically saying you don’t trust Goold’s reporting, which I suppose you can do but I don’t understand why.

agreed. of anyone he knows the most and he gets cagey sometimes too.