Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

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GeddyWrox
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Re: Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

Post by GeddyWrox »

Arthur Dent wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:I really have not heard anything proposed outside the ACA to single payer spectrum that would do anything to correct these problems.
Because such proposals don't exist. Skepticism of government is fine for what it's worth, but gets nowhere.

We're going to have to pay for people's bad health decisions one way or another whether through insurance premiums, taxes, or higher prices. Better to try and handle this rationally than to use personal indignity as an excuse to bury our heads in the sand.

Charity, while nice, is not up to a task of this magnitude, nor should it be, and there a no conceivable proposals that could change that.

Like it or not, the real choices available all involve various types of public regulations of health care financing.
=D> =D> =D>

Diddy
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Re: Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

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ghostrunner wrote:The USPS is a subsidized public service. I don't see why it should necessarily make money. It's lost and profited at varying times. How much money does the Department of Defense make? The EPA?
I'm just thinking it's not the best example. UPS and Fed Ex could probably doiver the package just as fast if they didn't need to make a profit.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3
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Re: Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

33anda3rd wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:But, it's a breath of fresh air to hear people openly question the need for a war on drugs (massive failure), war on terror (massive costs), etc.
Little off-topic, this is prob more for the election thread, but yeah it's really nice to hear Johnson say that about the war on drugs. Refreshing.

But then he says he wants to build more coal-fired power plants.

And then he says he wants to deregulate business, which would take our tenuous division of the classes and make it even worse.

And then he says he would repeal the APA, which would leave 15MM people uninsured.

And then he says he would slash defense by 43%--and while defense is in need of a clean up around the ears, it's vital to our liberty and way of life and this joker is proposing a full-on buzz cut.

And then he says he's not in favor of campaign finance reform--ie Citizens United is cool with him, just some really rich guys empowering some other really rich guys without that pesky government interference.

For every nice thing Johnson says he says five or more awful things.
Right. For every issue that comes up, it's almost like his answer is filtered through a libertarian filter, and then spit out. No thought or explanation for how it will be implemented or work, just...get rid of gov't and we're good. But, surely he knows more than his answers let on. Maybe. He governed a state for a while and by all means didn't mess it up. Can't do that with purely ideological answers.

Diddy
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Re: Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

Post by Diddy »

Socnorb11 wrote: The health care industry is the biggest fraud in America, by far. Someone needs to reel them in. I'd love it if my government at least tried to.
I'm not saying I disagree with you but why do you say that health care is the biggest fraud in America?

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Joe Shlabotnik
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Re: Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

Arthur Dent wrote:
Arthur Dent wrote:I really have not heard anything proposed outside the ACA to single payer spectrum that would do anything to correct these problems.
Because such proposals don't exist. Skepticism of government is fine for what it's worth, but gets nowhere.

We're going to have to pay for people's bad health decisions one way or another whether through insurance premiums, taxes, or higher prices. Better to try and handle this rationally than to use personal indignity as an excuse to bury our heads in the sand.
But what gets lost is that a single payer system actually keeps people healthier because people go for preventative care and checkups because they have access to affordable preventative care and checkups. They don't wait until something becomes an issue. Fixing a problem is almost always more expensive than keeping that problem from happening.

This preventative component needs to be factored in as a cost savings against the current system.

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Re: Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

Post by Diddy »

GeddyWrox wrote: And the person with the health issue is bankrupted in the process.
Seriously if all you can afford is $10 a month they will take it at 0% interest. They only reason you'll go bankrupt is by ignoring it.

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33anda3rd
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Re: Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

Post by 33anda3rd »

Diddy wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote: The health care industry is the biggest fraud in America, by far. Someone needs to reel them in. I'd love it if my government at least tried to.
I'm not saying I disagree with you but why do you say that health care is the biggest fraud in America?
I'll give you an example. 10 years ago I wake up in a remarkable amount of pain in my left shoulder. I can't lift my arm without howling in pain. I go to the ER. Guy says I sprained my shoulder. I say but I haven't had any trauma to my shoulder. He says eh these things happen, here's a prescription for Vicodin just wait it out. This is a Saturday. Tuesday I follow up with my doc, I feel the same. Not even 1% better. He goes yeah probably a sprain here's a 'scrip for a refill on the Vicodin. A week later I'm still unable to lift my left arm. I'm hunching my neck. I'm a mess. Guy at work gives me the # to his chiropractor. I get in that day. This guy says ok, the 3rd vertebrae in your neck informs the left arm and you are unaligned there, goes to work on me, has me come in daily for a week then every other day for a week. I feel better after just a day, good after 3, normal after a week and a half. No drugs. Instead of having people throw drugs at me, I found someone interested in getting down to what was wrong and making me better.

I'll give you another. My father-in-law is 90 and has pulmonary fibrosis. It was bad early this year, we though he was done. Was walking around w/ an oxygen tank and was on a cocktail of pills, like 13 different things a day. Couldn't leave home, literally, for fear he'd have one of these incidents where he goes to sleep and can't be woken back up, which were getting frequent. Scary stuff. We get him into an alternative medicine guy who uses acupuncture to increase blood flow and oxygen delivery and gives him a big bag of roots and herbs to drink 3X/day as tea. Oxygen tank is gone. He drives, he goes out to dinner. He's not running the decathalon or anything, but instead of having someone toss pills at him and say "you're old, you're dying" he found someone who wanted to treat him and get him better.

Because of pharma, and the money involved in pharma, pharma controls too much of the medical industry and leads to doctors prescribing instead of treating and fixing. Got a problem where you can't get a boner for your Mrs? Don't examine what's wrong w/ your marriage and why you two have lost sexual chemistry, just take this pill. Trust us, it's ok, you'll bang like old times.

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Schlich
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Re: Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

Post by Schlich »

Diddy wrote:
GeddyWrox wrote: And the person with the health issue is bankrupted in the process.
Seriously if all you can afford is $10 a month they will take it at 0% interest. They only reason you'll go bankrupt is by ignoring it.
lol. Everything is fine! Nothing to see here!

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Re: Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

Post by Diddy »

I agree 100% its a problem just wanting to see where others see the problem. I'm having somewhat the opposite right now I'm having health issues and they have run 10's of thousands of $'s in tests. They adknowledge that something is wrong, and have a pretty good idea what, but have Jo idea what's causing it and don't want to treat it till they find out the root cause. At this point I just want to feel better.

We have started using essential oils to treat issues and have been very happy so far.

Diddy
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Re: Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

Post by Diddy »

Schlich wrote:
Diddy wrote:
GeddyWrox wrote: And the person with the health issue is bankrupted in the process.
Seriously if all you can afford is $10 a month they will take it at 0% interest. They only reason you'll go bankrupt is by ignoring it.
lol. Everything is fine! Nothing to see here!
I didn't say everything is fine I'm saying that in every instance that I know of they are willing to go to incredible lengths to work with patients. I'd guess if you couldn't afford that $10 that Minh and called them up to tell them they wouldn't penalize you for it.

What other industry will work with you that much?

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