Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

[Schlich]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

Ignoring the fact that hospitals do indeed deny treatment to people not in emergencies, you get hit with a giant bill. You know, that you're required to pay. Like a tax.

People settle for incredibly lower amounts to pay. If they ever pay at all.

Like a tax!

I mean, I agree. We end up paying for it.

that's not what I meant, and you know it!

[Schlich]

Get rid of all hospitals because they're stealing our liberty.

[Tim]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

Ignoring the fact that hospitals do indeed deny treatment to people not in emergencies, you get hit with a giant bill. You know, that you're required to pay. Like a tax.

People settle for incredibly lower amounts to pay. If they ever pay at all.

Like a tax!

I mean, I agree. We end up paying for it.

that's not what I meant, and you know it!

Ok I'm incredibly confused. Per usual.

[GeddyWrox]

If you're concerned about having fewer options and/or being able to keep your current physician, tell me why this won't work...

We expand medicare to cover all citizens. They get to select from PUBLIC providers. Maybe this list is limited, but everyone is guaranteed quality healthcare from SOMEWHERE.

Now, if you're rich and wish to buy extra PRIVATE insurance so you can continue to see your favorite provider, then more power to you.

Does this model sound familiar? I basically just described the public/private education system we have. Why won't this approach work in healthcare???

[Tim]

Get rid of all hospitals because they're stealing our liberty.

Ok.

[GeddyWrox]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

Ignoring the fact that hospitals do indeed deny treatment to people not in emergencies, you get hit with a giant bill. You know, that you're required to pay. Like a tax.

People settle for incredibly lower amounts to pay. If they ever pay at all.

That assumes they know how to work the system, and even have the money to pay the lower amount. Most poor people don't know you can do that. Hell, I didn't even know you could do that. Most poor people are just going to see a bill for 50K and go "[expletive] that. BWAHAHAHAHAHA." and then throw it in the trash.

Right. Exactly.

So you agree the last thing you said is pointless?

[Schlich]

All I'm trying to say is that The Government is not some magical entity that is the only one with power to take your liberty away by taking your money. Unless you don't think that physical health matters when it comes to liberty. Which would be weird.

[Tim]

If you're concerned about having fewer options and/or being able to keep your current physician, tell me why this won't work...

We expand medicare to cover all citizens. They get to select from PUBLIC providers. Maybe this list is limited, but everyone is guaranteed quality healthcare from SOMEWHERE.

Now, if you're rich and wish to buy extra PRIVATE insurance so you can continue to see your favorite provider, then more power to you.

Does this model sound familiar? I basically just described the public/private education system we have. Why won't this approach work in healthcare???

I would be concerned that providers won't accept medicare because reimbursements are poor, leaving those without the ability to purchase private insurance with very few options. That is already happening in Charleston, SC. Good luck finding a psychiatrist that accepts it except for the local mental health center. Wait to see a psychiatrist? 3 months.

[Tim]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

Ignoring the fact that hospitals do indeed deny treatment to people not in emergencies, you get hit with a giant bill. You know, that you're required to pay. Like a tax.

People settle for incredibly lower amounts to pay. If they ever pay at all.

That assumes they know how to work the system, and even have the money to pay the lower amount. Most poor people don't know you can do that. Hell, I didn't even know you could do that. Most poor people are just going to see a bill for 50K and go "[expletive] that. BWAHAHAHAHAHA." and then throw it in the trash.

Right. Exactly.

So you agree the last thing you said is pointless?

What I am saying is that in the current system, people are not turned away for medical emergencies whether they can pay or not. They may receive a bill, but the hospital is lucky to see a fraction if any of the bill. Ipso facto you and I pay for it.

[GeddyWrox]

If you're concerned about having fewer options and/or being able to keep your current physician, tell me why this won't work...

We expand medicare to cover all citizens. They get to select from PUBLIC providers. Maybe this list is limited, but everyone is guaranteed quality healthcare from SOMEWHERE.

Now, if you're rich and wish to buy extra PRIVATE insurance so you can continue to see your favorite provider, then more power to you.

Does this model sound familiar? I basically just described the public/private education system we have. Why won't this approach work in healthcare???

I would be concerned that providers won't accept medicare because reimbursements are poor, leaving those without the ability to purchase private insurance with very few options. That is already happening in Charleston, SC. Good luck finding a psychiatrist that accepts it except for the local mental health center. Wait to see a psychiatrist? 3 months.

And poor people have options now???