Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare)

[33anda3rd]

I have a hard time with my taxes paying for people to receive treatment for COPD when they decided to smoke cigarettes for 40 years. I have a hard time paying for other people to receive dialysis because their kidneys are shot, because instead of spending $4 a month on Lisinopril, they spent it on cocaine and worsening their hypertension.

It's really surprising to me to hear a physician put this in terms of dollars and cents and saying these people don't deserve assistance to their care and recovery, rather than seeing people with substance abuse and addiction issues treated as sick people in need of care.

If I am taxed less then I will have more finances to give to this clinic.

And maybe you would, but you're one person. We hear this all the time. Don't tax the wealthy, they're job creators. Ok, so under Bush he gave the wealthy tax breaks and the distribution of wealth went more in the favor of the wealthy. Why didn't it work? Because something that sounds so pretty and easy in theory doesn't happen in practice. Even if you did get a tax break and give every penny saved to that clinic, you're one guy and most people are not going to do the same. A break in taxes is a nicer car, a trip to Paris, a vacation home, a boat, more savings for the kids' education, and not money that gets given to charity in like 99.99% of cases.

I think we should also think about insurance. Why do we buy insurance? You don't buy car insurance to pay for oil changes. You buy car insurance for when you are in an accident and the immediate out of pocket costs would be too high. Somehow, some way, I think this mindset could be used in the medical field. Why should insurance be involved when I am going in for a yearly check up, some blood work, and the finger to the prostate? Insurance companies are a huge problem. One reason I like working in a prison system and as an ED psych consultant is because I don't have to deal with them. I just don't think further government interference is the answer.

I buy insurance in case something awful happens. But I need insurance because the private sector's mismanagement, bureaucracy, and dependence on big pharma have caused the costs to escalate to absurd levels.

[Tim]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

[Schlich]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

Ignoring the fact that hospitals do indeed deny treatment to people not in emergencies, you get hit with a giant bill. You know, that you're required to pay. Like a tax.

[33anda3rd]

But, it's a breath of fresh air to hear people openly question the need for a war on drugs (massive failure), war on terror (massive costs), etc.

Little off-topic, this is prob more for the election thread, but yeah it's really nice to hear Johnson say that about the war on drugs. Refreshing.

But then he says he wants to build more coal-fired power plants.

And then he says he wants to deregulate business, which would take our tenuous division of the classes and make it even worse.

And then he says he would repeal the APA, which would leave 15MM people uninsured.

And then he says he would slash defense by 43%--and while defense is in need of a clean up around the ears, it's vital to our liberty and way of life and this joker is proposing a full-on buzz cut.

And then he says he's not in favor of campaign finance reform--ie Citizens United is cool with him, just some really rich guys empowering some other really rich guys without that pesky government interference.

For every nice thing Johnson says he says five or more awful things.

[pioneer98]

I have some determination over who provides my health care. I am concerned that my level of determination will decrease dramatically once government is further entrenched. Trust me, I am a physician and my wife is a pharmacist. I agree the industry needs an overhaul. I just don't want folks in DC doing it.

Who else is going to do it, if not them?

You're OK leaving your health care in the hands of for-profit corporations, like we currently do?

I guess I'm not sure what you're suggesting, unless I've missed something.

I am not knowledgeable enough to have the answer. It is my opinion that more government is not the answer. I realize I am complaining without a solution, but that is how I feel.

Here are my personal opinions. I have a hard time with my taxes paying for people to receive treatment for COPD when they decided to smoke cigarettes for 40 years. I have a hard time paying for other people to receive dialysis because their kidneys are shot, because instead of spending $4 a month on Lisinopril, they spent it on cocaine and worsening their hypertension.

Again, these are TAX dollars, not voluntary charity.

Please don't misunderstand where I am coming from. I have mentioned this before and do not say it to receive congratulations or pats on the back. My wife and I volunteer at a medical clinic in North Charleston. It receives absolutely no government funding. Zero. All drugs are free. All visits are free. We provide primary care, mental health care, and we have two therapists to provide counseling. In addition to the time we spend volunteering, we also give financially.

If I am taxed less then I will have more finances to give to this clinic. I think there is a place for voluntary charity. In my experience, it is efficient and provides good outcomes. My patients are invested because they know that I am doing this without any compensation.

When government is involved, we think that the poor are being taken care of. It is an after thought. When government gets out of the way, it allows for more clinics and better care. Again, MY OPINION.

I think we should also think about insurance. Why do we buy insurance? You don't buy car insurance to pay for oil changes. You buy car insurance for when you are in an accident and the immediate out of pocket costs would be too high. Somehow, some way, I think this mindset could be used in the medical field. Why should insurance be involved when I am going in for a yearly check up, some blood work, and the finger to the prostate? Insurance companies are a huge problem. One reason I like working in a prison system and as an ED psych consultant is because I don't have to deal with them. I just don't think further government interference is the answer.

The hospital across the street from my house was started by Catholic nuns as a charity over 100 years ago. They treated people that couldn't afford it for free, which back then was pretty much everyone. In fact, the hospital system is still run as a "non-profit" to this very day. Now it doesn't give care for free any more, and it is subsidized. But supposedly, it is not supposed to be able to turn a profit by law. FWIW

[Tim]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

Ignoring the fact that hospitals do indeed deny treatment to people not in emergencies, you get hit with a giant bill. You know, that you're required to pay. Like a tax.

People settle for incredibly lower amounts to pay. If they ever pay at all.

[GeddyWrox]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

Ignoring the fact that hospitals do indeed deny treatment to people not in emergencies, you get hit with a giant bill. You know, that you're required to pay. Like a tax.

People settle for incredibly lower amounts to pay. If they ever pay at all.

That assumes they know how to work the system, and even have the money to pay the lower amount. Most poor people don't know you can do that. Hell, I didn't even know you could do that. Most poor people are just going to see a bill for 50K and go "[expletive] that. BWAHAHAHAHAHA." and then throw it in the trash.

[Schlich]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

Ignoring the fact that hospitals do indeed deny treatment to people not in emergencies, you get hit with a giant bill. You know, that you're required to pay. Like a tax.

People settle for incredibly lower amounts to pay. If they ever pay at all.

Like a tax!

[Tim]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

Ignoring the fact that hospitals do indeed deny treatment to people not in emergencies, you get hit with a giant bill. You know, that you're required to pay. Like a tax.

People settle for incredibly lower amounts to pay. If they ever pay at all.

That assumes they know how to work the system, and even have the money to pay the lower amount. Most poor people don't know you can do that. Hell, I didn't even know you could do that. Most poor people are just going to see a bill for 50K and go "[expletive] that. BWAHAHAHAHAHA." and then throw it in the trash.

Right. Exactly.

[Tim]

What's the difference between the government threatening to throw you in jail if you don't pay taxes and a hospital telling you that you have to die or live with debilitating injury because you can't afford treatment? edit: directed to Tim

When has a hospital ever done that? When you go to the ED you are guaranteed treatment.

Ignoring the fact that hospitals do indeed deny treatment to people not in emergencies, you get hit with a giant bill. You know, that you're required to pay. Like a tax.

People settle for incredibly lower amounts to pay. If they ever pay at all.

Like a tax!

I mean, I agree. We end up paying for it.