Mozeliak: "Some Changes" Coming For Cardinals, But Not A Rebuild

[Magneto2.0]

I feel like the Orioles are the best trade partner for us. They have almost no pitching. I feel like they could use Monty and Flaherty, and they have been collecting prospects through years of sucking. They seem like the ideal trade partner. I want Grayson Rodriguez.

[cardsfantx]

Only person reporting Contreras is on the trade block is Bob Nightengale

that means we already signed him to an extension

[Felix The Cat]

I feel like the Orioles are the best trade partner for us. They have almost no pitching. I feel like they could use Monty and Flaherty, and they have been collecting prospects through years of sucking. They seem like the ideal trade partner. I want Grayson Rodriguez.

If they're so starved for pitching, why would they send us their best pitching prospect for a few rental pieces? Their contention window should be longer than this year.

[Famous Mortimer]

I find this talk very odd. I was reading someone who'd clearly just discovered the concept of the sunk cost fallacy without really understanding what it meant - Contreras' contract isn't a sunk cost, and he's totally likely to overperform it by wins/$, even with being treated like dirt by his own employers and being blamed for both their bad decisions and his co-workers underperformance. Kept his mouth shut too, unlike teammate of the year Ryan Helsley.

The people desperate to trade him because he's...not Yadi? They're just desperate for trades?...don't seem to grasp how baseball works. Is there a team which could have signed him for just money 6 months ago, that'll now give up prospects to pay him that same amount of money? If the response is "the Cardinals will have to pay to get rid of him" then, why? He's going to be worth 2-ish WAR, which seems entirely reasonable for the amount of money he's being paid. The team should have both Contreras and a potentially great rookie like Herrera.

[cardsfantx]

I find this talk very odd. I was reading someone who'd clearly just discovered the concept of the sunk cost fallacy without really understanding what it meant - Contreras' contract isn't a sunk cost, and he's totally likely to overperform it by wins/$, even with being treated like dirt by his own employers and being blamed for both their bad decisions and his co-workers underperformance. Kept his mouth shut too, unlike teammate of the year Ryan Helsley.

The people desperate to trade him because he's...not Yadi? They're just desperate for trades?...don't seem to grasp how baseball works. Is there a team which could have signed him for just money 6 months ago, that'll now give up prospects to pay him that same amount of money? If the response is "the Cardinals will have to pay to get rid of him" then, why? He's going to be worth 2-ish WAR, which seems entirely reasonable for the amount of money he's being paid. The team should have both Contreras and a potentially great rookie like Herrera.

most fans are completely fine with Contreras (I was a fan of the signing at the time, still am)...there's 1 on the board here who obv isn't, and yes, those weird ones out there who just can't grasp no one can be Yadi (who was [expletive] terrible with the bat the last few years)

but the FO (Mo) again keeps talking about contreras and the catching situation in a negative light, saying something will need to be addressed in the offseason. I'm assuming it still has something to do with the pitch selection; even though stats show there's not much difference between he and Kiz (Herrera obv too early to know)

The days of Yadi types catching every singe day are a thing of the past, so if you end up trading Contreras, you're still in the same boat with having Herrera and a no bat kiz behind him sharing C duties.

I like the idea of contreras and Herrera spitting time at C....herrera and kiz? not so much...

[MinorLeagueGuy]

I find this talk very odd. I was reading someone who'd clearly just discovered the concept of the sunk cost fallacy without really understanding what it meant - Contreras' contract isn't a sunk cost, and he's totally likely to overperform it by wins/$, even with being treated like dirt by his own employers and being blamed for both their bad decisions and his co-workers underperformance. Kept his mouth shut too, unlike teammate of the year Ryan Helsley.

The people desperate to trade him because he's...not Yadi? They're just desperate for trades?...don't seem to grasp how baseball works. Is there a team which could have signed him for just money 6 months ago, that'll now give up prospects to pay him that same amount of money? If the response is "the Cardinals will have to pay to get rid of him" then, why? He's going to be worth 2-ish WAR, which seems entirely reasonable for the amount of money he's being paid. The team should have both Contreras and a potentially great rookie like Herrera.

Personally, I'm ready to roll with Contreras and Hererra in 2024. Ivan is young, and has been working within the "next Yadi" parameters for his whole career. Wilson catches 1/3 of the time(maybe specific starters), and Ivan gets the other 2/3 of the schedule. That gives Willson the entire offseason to be in Jupiter, inundating himself even further with what expectations are with this team. Nobody wanted, or expected, to have Kniz play as much this year, and we all knew this LAST YEAR. But I think we all like Herrera's future at this point more than what we expected to get out of Kniz this year. So the tandem just feels better knowing that its going to be our other future guy, rather than Kniz which we have soured on 2 seasons ago.

[Famous Mortimer]

I think we should definitely give Herrera a fair shake when it comes to proving himself. I also think the Cardinals should look at their expectations and realise that if they don't hire people who are a good fit for those expectations, it's perhaps not the player that should be forced to change.

[Magneto2.0]

I feel like the Orioles are the best trade partner for us. They have almost no pitching. I feel like they could use Monty and Flaherty, and they have been collecting prospects through years of sucking. They seem like the ideal trade partner. I want Grayson Rodriguez.

If they're so starved for pitching, why would they send us their best pitching prospect for a few rental pieces? Their contention window should be longer than this year.

Flags fly forever?

If they think they can get a ring this year, they may be willing to sacrifice a long term asset for immediate results. Not saying it's likely, and we may have to spice up the offer, but I'd be willing to add more to make it intriguing. Monty + Bedell or Hjerpe maybe?

[ghostrunner]

I don't know that I'd sign Contreras if it could be redone, but I'm getting used to the idea of just having a second catcher who can hit well enough to DH half the time. You need two anyway, so why not? Plus I like him.

Just wild that we've carried 3 catchers at the same time we've had obvious challenges with the pitching staff.

[sighyoung]

You really need a second-string catcher to jump photogenically at the right moment.